Midlife Divorce | Signs It's Time to Stay or Leave Your Marriage After 40 - WTF Just Happened?

SPEAKER_01: This is What the F Just Happened.

SPEAKER_00: The podcast that proved life is messy, midlife is so wild, and laughter is definitely non-negotiable.

SPEAKER_01: So grab a cocktail or a mocktail or your favorite emotionally supportive snack, and let's get into it.

SPEAKER_01: Hi. Hi. So if we talk about something?

SPEAKER_00: Yes, let's have a talk.

SPEAKER_01: Well, what's the hardest decision you've ever had to make? And for a lot of women, it's not deciding to get divorced, it's deciding whether you should stay.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think we talked about this decision starting months and years before anyone realizes that there's a problem. And I think we can all say that we've had some issues in our marriages. They're not easy.

SPEAKER_01: So I'm Hillary. And I'm Sada. Welcome back to WF Just Happen. I think I said that right. WTF. It's been one of those days. It's a Monday. It's a little Monday. I know I probably need more coffee this week. So welcome back. Today we are going to be talking about the ins and outs of divorce. And I want to just preface this with not a lawyer, not a counselor, not a divorce expert, other than just having gone through it and having it be really challenging. But anyone who's married, and you know from long-term marriages, even in the happiest of them.

SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna throw it out there. Probably safe to assume. That at some point you're like, you bug.

SPEAKER_00: You bug, you bug hard. You bug, and I wanna drive my car off a tiny short cliff.

SPEAKER_01: Or I don't want to drive it off. I want you to drive it off.

SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you want to like meaning yeah, it's a it's it's hard when you're in the thick of it. And um, you know, things that's just such a learning process, especially if you've gotten married young. Yes. How many years it takes to actually get in a good groove and a good rhythm with your partner.

SPEAKER_01: So this is for all the women, couples, where it's hard. Marriage is hard. And contemplating divorce, I think, is really hard. And then deciding to get divorced and walking through it, and then the aftermath of it is really challenging. So we're just gonna kind of like go through a little bit of these are things probably I wish I had known because I spent years contemplating it before we had financial infidelity. So many years of just being miserable and wishing honestly, I just had hoped he'd get a girlfriend.

SPEAKER_01: And I hope the girlfriend had an apartment that he could go live at.

SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, and I think that even being um in a very long marriage with my husband, I looking at some of these things we're gonna talk about, it's all it's a lot of things that we just happened to, we'd not we just worked hard to we just decided to stick it out and like we worked our way through a lot of counseling, but there's also things that you just can't work through.

SPEAKER_01: So were you can ask a question? Were you were do you remember being lonely throughout the marriage?

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I think we honestly, if I really think about it, like we probably both were mint for many years because you're raising little kids, you're buying, you know, I stayed at home part of the time. I travel, I was a flight attendant for part of the time. You know, there you're you're trying to, you don't agree with everything. You know, he worked crazy hours. I was, you know, like I said, tried to stay home. Yeah, you're you just get out of the groove of dating if you're having kids. I mean, I I can't speak for people that don't have kids, but I imagine they also go through lonely times.

SPEAKER_00: Why? Because I think we're always evolving, we're always changing. You're discovering new things about yourself. You know, what do I like? What do I not like? Like he likes to golf, and maybe you forced yourself to golf because you wanted to like connect with each other. And then at some point in your 40s, you're like, I don't want to freaking go golf with you, you know? But we are golf now. Yes, I still hate golf. Um, so mine used to golf, and I'd be like, please go. Yeah, and then okay, so that's a good point.

SPEAKER_01: So you spend eight hours away from me.

SPEAKER_00: If I look back, I think I would be very like, um, I don't think jealous is the right word because I had a really good group of girlfriends. I think that I really like always wanted to spend a lot of time with Chris, and he also had his own kind of life. He had a group of friends, he was really into music, he loved recording music, um, he loved playing poker, like he had some kind of like hobbies, and mine were more like work and kids. Right. And I think what happens is you get a little bit resentful if that person is, let's just say, you know, say he he or if he was recording until two, three o'clock in the morning with his buddies doing music.

SPEAKER_00: That would like grind me at first because I was like, oh, why doesn't he want to be home here with like family? Well, as I evolve and you grow, you really want to like, you really start to learn some new things about yourself. And then after probably many arguments about it, eventually years go by and I'm like, oh my gosh, go do your thing. Right. Like, how hallelujah you have somebody something that you want to go do? And you're not sitting here staring at me, drinking a beer, playing video games, like on the couch.

SPEAKER_00: Like, and then it got to the point where it was like you look forward to them leaving, so you could also have quiet time or do your own thing. So I think there is loneliness in every marriage, but yeah, I I I've talked to several people who have gone through that same thing, like very mad or resentful. Like if someone's golfing and then they're you going to the bar after and then they're out for hours and hours and you're home with the kids and they say they're gonna be home and they're they don't come home.

SPEAKER_00: And then once you kind of I don't know if it means you get to the point where you're so frustrated that you don't have the energy to argue and you're glad when they leave to go do their own thing, or if it's just a matter of maturing and finding a better communication style, right, you know, where you're like, Yeah, go golf. Like please, hollow.

SPEAKER_01: That's actually probably something good for people who are like younger in getting married or newly married, is realizing that like I never had hobbies. Yeah, we had I never, yeah, we did. I never had hobbies. And so he so my ex was a golfer, and so he would go do that, and that was fine. I didn't have hobbies. I was never resentful because I think I, like I said, I wanted him to shoo shoot, skip, go golf for the entire weekend. Yeah, go do a tournament out of state. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: Maybe come back, maybe not go back. But did he golf when the girls were little and you were kind of like, whoa, like are you gonna like golf's a long, I don't even know. It takes a long golf, but well, because it does.

SPEAKER_01: It takes a long time to say. I just remember, I think that's it, is like you're so it's hard to be really lonely in a marriage. So, right, to be lonely, like when you're lonely in life. Yeah. Let's say you're single, whatever, or you're just in a lonely period. But to be lonely within your marriage, I think is a very different place. Yeah. Because you've got this other person that supposedly is your best friend and the person you're confident on, you know, every you're everything. And to then not to then know that what you want in the world does not align with what they want.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah. But no, I don't remember I just remember not being resentful because I was probably resentful maybe younger. But then at the older stages when the kids were little, it was so much easier to not have them in the house. Yeah. So I encouraged them. Like, I was always the wife who said, Oh, you're gonna go with the guys golfing, you're already go over the weekend. Please, please go. Yeah. Yeah. Where do I send the check?

SPEAKER_00: And I think there's something, um, even if you have a really great marriage, if if the husband is out doing whatever it is that he does, there's kind of like a little bit of pressure taken off of you to like make a meal or to like do a bathtub and hurry up and get like on I I remember feeling like, oh, girls, dad's working late or he's gonna go record or whatever. And it kind of felt like you could just kind of like be in the house and not have like a regular festival. It was like girlfriend slumber party.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like you could just have random food, or like you you didn't have to feel like you had to make a meal. That's probably why we don't like to anymore.

SPEAKER_01: Breakfast for dinner.

SPEAKER_00: Breakfast for dinner, the best watch a show, do a bath, read, and then like put the girls down, and then you kind of felt like you had a little bit of time to yourself, which I've always felt like I kind of enjoyed. Um yeah, quite quiet house and just the best. Like it's easy to do it when they're not here, because like then you don't have to do you know, I'm an extra person.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I think it is hard when you're lonely within your marriage, and maybe when that that's something is if you have hobbies, they have hobbies. If they have hobbies, then I would say get your own hobbies. They don't have to align together. No, but I think that's hard when loneliness, I think, can if they're out doing their own thing, that builds resentment. Yes.

SPEAKER_00: And resentment is a hard place to live in a marriage. Well, one of the most important and I feel like solid things that Chris and I did in our marriage was that we did find things that we like to do together. Yeah. Um, because we we didn't for you know, in the in the beginning because we were young and it was just about, like I said, raising kids. Right. So there's like limited money. It's different, it's a different, it's a different phase. We loved, like we found that we wanted to, like, we found that we had the most amazing talks when we would just go on like a walk in the neighborhood or when we found that we liked bike riding together.

SPEAKER_00: Like that was so much fun. So that our marriage really like blossomed and came together in like the last, I would say, like five of our years because we really like and our we were becoming empty nesters anyway.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because parenting, I mean, you throw parenting on that and the ebbs and the flows of the kids and finances and but if you can find that early on, I feel like you have a good chance at like go on a walk, have the talks, have the conversations, not in front of your kids.

SPEAKER_00: I feel like that would have probably saved us some. But it it was about maturing and and finding your communication stuff.

SPEAKER_01: It's all about communication because we in my first marriage never had that. Didn't know how to communicate, wasn't raised in a household that effectively communicated. I've learned so much about myself just doing this podcast. Yeah. About how ineffective my communication has been with friends. And my MO is to bail, right? Don't want to do conflict, don't want to, you know, don't want to face that head on. And realizing that even for the ones that can't do that. Oh, what? You are out of the way.

SPEAKER_01: But that like I there was no benefit from that is when even if, for example, I feel like we need to like go close. I know. I can't. I'm like, I feel like close it. We have a little bit of a shutter issue. Where we've got but that, yeah, I mean, communication. If you are younger, and you probably aren't listening to us, but well, maybe for all of you women who let's say have younger daughters or sons, getting effective communication and conflict resolution skills are critical. Game changer. Uh Sean and I have really good.

SPEAKER_01: I think it's that one. Sorry, we have a little bit. Yeah, we have it's really the good news is it's summer and it's sunny and it's gorgeous in Idaho right now. So the downfall is it's making it like a little hard to like give me a little bit of a glare. Um, but communication's everything. And I think if you're early on, is if you have different passions, yes, great. Go do them independent of each other and then communicate coming back together to try and alleviate some of that, those lonely times.

SPEAKER_00: Like the number one, and I I can specifically remember Chris just working really, really late hours. And I was, you know, if I made dinner and he's like, I'll be home, let's say it's four, and he's like, I'll be home at six. I remember trying to have dinner ready at six. And then if I didn't hear from him or he wasn't answering because he was like working in a warehouse. Oh, it's so annoying. That would like cause chaos in our house. Because I was like, dinner's ready, he's not home. And then he was like, I go, it just takes one text message, one phone call, one call.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah. And he learned, I mean, they it's a learning, it's a learning curve for everybody. Yeah. So I I I really think that you know, if you got if people can learn these skills early, but those are the types of things that get uh you that you end up chipping away at in a marriage that ends up being resentful, hateful, you grow apart, you don't communicate, you have weeks without talking, that sort of thing. It's oh weeks without talking. That is, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: If you were in that space, all I can say if you're contemplating or you're in that space, is absolutely therapy. And I'm not saying you have to go to therapy with a human. I'm saying is AI is so good right now, it does not replace professional counsel or that type of a dialogue. But it does give you, if you put in, for example, all of the all of the areas, including your own areas of growth that maybe you could work on or how you're like I would Mike would, this is my former husband, he was so volatile that when he would lose it, there were apps of times where I would lose my crap.

SPEAKER_00: Oh because I'm like I was I was done. I had it. I think I threw remotes at Chris. Yeah, like non-effective. You did. Yeah. To rate him. Yeah. Sorry, babe. Sorry. Yeah, but but we were like 20, I mean, I had no we like we had no I mean, what I think we did like four weeks of premarital counseling. Like I didn't have the skills to know how to be this like communic to like communicate in a calm, let's sit down, take a 20-minute break, walk away. We're both heated. I'll meet you back here at 12 30. Like as we learn to get older, of course we can, you know, eventually do that if you're lucky enough to learn the skills to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00: And that comes from, I think, therapy or you know, just yeah, like just yeah, learning how to communicate more effectively.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah. And hearing the the other person.

SPEAKER_00: I mean, I guess I'm stuff I'm angrish. Well, no, I did kick kick the the hole in the wall in my bathroom.

SPEAKER_01: That's like no kicking the hole in your bathroom because you were angry. I was angry, Chris left the first.

SPEAKER_00: So I didn't do a little donkey kick. Yeah, I'm thinking I'm just kidding. But yes.

SPEAKER_01: In brief, there are no right kick the fucking wall. Yeah. The wall can get repaired. Yeah. Absolutely. No, I mean, but when you're, let's say, in conflict with your spouse, don't kick the wall.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah. And I think early conflict too is about um like getting, you know, communication styles. And some men are detached and don't give you a the reaction or the communication back that you're looking for. So you go like, I'm gonna go a step above, or I'm gonna throw a remote at you in the hopes that you'll give me some sort of something instead of walking away. How does that go when you would throw a remote? I don't remember. Gosh, it was like 25 years ago. I don't. I mean, I think remote shot would be like I think I was just like, eh, I you're like, yeah, you like listen to me.

SPEAKER_00: Why aren't you listening to me? I want to and then like you're it's like you're beating a dead horse. At some point you have to know. Walk away. And I mean nothing left to talk about for the evening that will be uh that will be able to be accomplished because you're both off your rock, you're off the rock.

SPEAKER_01: Out of your rockers.

SPEAKER_00: Off your rockers.

SPEAKER_01: So I guess the question is if you're contemplating, and obviously I contemplated for many years before when you were contemplating, did you talk to Chris about this? Did you say, hey, this is how I'm feeling? Do you guys have conversations? Oh yeah. I never had a lot of therapy. You did about like we had to do therapy very short, because my former wouldn't actually be honest. So we'd go to a session, he would lie. Yeah, I'd say that's a lie. I'm happy Chris was willing to go.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah. Some people some men aren't willing to uh go ever, ever, ever.

SPEAKER_01: But what did you when you were sort of thinking, let's say, okay, look, we're this isn't working. I'm unhappy. Obviously, now there's kids involved, which is so hard. What were your thoughts?

SPEAKER_00: Meaning I was it's like you get so tired. Yeah. And you're so you just want to give up, but you also know, like, well, I mean, I think for a lot of women too, who aren't necessarily working or bringing in any kind of significant income, you were nervous to leave. I mean, I there were plenty of times where we talked about like, you know, separation or just taking stepping away for a little bit. We never actually did because I mean, thank the Lord our therapy like worked. But there's so many times I remember going to therapy and feeling like the therapist was like on his side.

SPEAKER_00: And I was Oh, really? Oh my gosh. I was like, this is ridiculous. Like I got up and left therapy a couple times, like in the middle of therapy. Really, because you felt like you were being high. I felt like she was like, Chris's, and looking back, I guess he's was one like he was, but he got shit too. And we all do, we all do. Um, but yeah, I think I remember walking out of therapy a couple times, um, and always going back because I never really wanted to like wanted it to end. No. Um, and we had our girls.

SPEAKER_00: It just was that we were, and most people that know, Chris and I, I mean, we were like polar opposites. I mean, at the end we I think melded into a more synced role. But yeah, like polar opposites.

SPEAKER_01: But I just remember, like maybe in the same as yeah, the being nervous to like what does this look like after it's not over? But the fear. I mean, I was riddled with fear for years.

SPEAKER_00: Judgment, fear, you know. Did you feel like you were going to be judged? Oh, I mean, I think I would I would assume that unless people you air your dirty laundry out into the entire world, most people would feel judged because not everybody knows every single story that has has happened. But judge from like your family or your friends, or just probably not my friends, just probably family, just maybe disappointment, disappointing myself. Um, right, you know, all of that.

SPEAKER_01: Right. Yeah, because you don't go, you don't get married thinking you're gonna get divorced. No. Right? You get married thinking, oh, we're we're gonna, you know, bow to be together.

SPEAKER_00: But I forever think that people tend to, from what I feel like our society is now, tend to kind of wait a little bit longer now and get married and don't get married at the age of 23 years old, you know? Which is not a bad thing. Unless you're a very mature 23-year-old.

SPEAKER_01: So 23-year-olds out there, you got it together. My bonus daughter got married. So she's what, she was 20. I think she'd just turned 25. So she could have gotten married to him when she was 19.

unknown: Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: They are both mature, they know it. Yeah, they're like soulmates. They're jewel peas, split and they are like each other. They're like each other's other person. Yeah. So there's no way. I mean, it would not have mattered, but yeah, that's unusual to have that.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's what I think. It's it's rare. So I mean, I yeah, I don't there's a lot of foundation work and a lot of growth you have to do the younger, you know, the younger you get married.

SPEAKER_01: So if you're thinking about it, it's get yourself into some type of counseling if you can. Get your spouse into counseling if you can.

SPEAKER_00: But go regardless. Go regardless. Because there were years where Chris and I were, I was like, I'm not going, I don't need to go. And he's like, Well, I'm not going, I don't need to go. But in the opposite realm of that, you know, I encourage people if their spouse won't go, I'm like, You have to go. You have to get tools. Yep. Maybe, you know, we maybe you're overlooking something, and the the therapist gives you some tools to kind of diffuse a situation, and then you kind of come to the light of like, okay, I am kind of being a little bit fratty in that situation.

SPEAKER_00: Like, maybe I am the one that's wrong, you know, but maybe I didn't see it in that light and see how that was. So I just think, yeah, counseling for both and for marriage is strong, but there's a lot of people that won't. Don't you think also just ongoing is Yeah, Chris and I went like our whole marriage.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was gonna say, honestly, Sean and I just went back recently and we don't, I mean, we're happily, happily married, but there was a there was an issue, it's actually still on the table, that we just have a harder time resolving. And we have both are now mature enough in our communication, with especially with each other, to say, we're not going to get through this. And there's no, I mean, divorce will never absolutely happen. We'll be married forever. But I can't we not the butt. It's and this won't get resolved without someone else giving us some other tips and tricks and uh how to an outlook.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, just a different perspective. Perspective. From each other is like you hear me on this, I hear you on this. And it we are working on it's it will be an ongoing. Yeah, you know, it's just it's just a conflict that we have. Blended families, that's a whole other segment. Blended families are really hard. You're coming at it with your own kids, your own ideas, your own way of parenting. Yeah. And even though the kids are adults, it's like we just need some little tips every now and then.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah. It's like that is, I think, a beautiful part because you stick it in like a little, like you pin it. Like, okay, we're just gonna deal with this over here. It's not gonna like come into our daily conversations and our daily norm because it will get worked out. Yeah. We'll have it, we'll come to a different perspective on it. But then like, but we're happily, happily married. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: And I also think too, like, that's so awesome. And you guys are, I just think it's good. It's like, it should be so normal, like going to the freaking doctor. Yes.

SPEAKER_01: And agree, normalize, right? Yeah. And it's like a, it's like a twice-a-year check-in.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I agree. And I also think it's really great to have um, you know, a couple that is in your life that you can look up to, both of you. Like Chris and I had our a couple, or I mean, we have so many couples that we look up to that um, you know, shaped our marriage and um just were very helpful on both ends to kind of walk through. Um, I could say, like, Kristen and Spencer. I mean, she was married before they had blended family. Um, although Chris and I didn't have a blended family, they both were really great like role models for Chris and I because we were best friends with them.

SPEAKER_00: So Chris could like lean on Spencer, and then I could lean on Kristen, and she would kind of like bring me back to reality, like, calm down, let's take a breath. Like, you know, I think it's good to have um some friends that you can really lean on as well that maybe have already kind of gone through things that you've already gone through, or can give you a perspective of like on it, like kind of give you like a little slap in the face. Like I remember Kristen used to say, like, yeah, Seda, this is not a Disneyland marriage.

SPEAKER_00: This is that he is not gonna ride uh end up in front of Shady Valley Lane where we used to live on a white horse and draw out the the 12 red roses and and declare his love for the movie. Wild. Why? Why not? It's in the movies, it's in the movies. She's like it's you, we don't live in the movies. We that we don't so like let's just like bring it back. And I was very much young and bratty and wanted to like, you know, just have my way all the time, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_01: So I think that's normal at any age, is like you see it from your perspective when you, you know. I mean, that's one thing I'm working on is realizing that just because it's mine doesn't make it right. Yeah. So yeah, we have to, I think.

SPEAKER_00: Would Chris Well and he did bring me flowers literally like every Friday, but I must like I still I love that. I still that's amazing. It was, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: Would he actually talk to Spencer and have would he actually open up as a man? Yeah. That's actually really impressive because I think that's really hard is most and this is just generalization for men I know, is to have really calm rare. Yeah, to have those kind of friendships where you can be vulnerable and honest and be able to speak to things that are not work, sports, you know, whatever things, whether um to have really dynamic, yeah, dynamic, in-depth conversations of a personal nature, especially conflict, let's say within a marriage.

SPEAKER_00: That honest, if you could find that, that's huge. It's huge. I think that that's yeah, if you can't, and a therapist, I think sometimes we you know, Chris and I went through a couple of marriage counselors, and some of them I'm like, this is not the person for us. You have to find they've probably felt the same thing. Where I cannot help you too. Uh but like they're like this other person gave us different tools, you know. Um that's hard is trying to, yeah, you're because you're like dating your therapist until it's so tiring to go in and have to tell your story about, you know, and what's like what do you bring from your prior marriage or your um how your upbringing, like what are you bringing your baggage into sabotage unknowingly that you have to unravel and repack and yeah, you know, all of that.

SPEAKER_00: So I think, yeah, if you can therapy is great, but if you have a friend or some like a church or pastor or someone that you can talk to, I think that's it's key. Just somebody that will listen. But yeah, I mean, I have good girlfriends that including you guys now to help like just walk me through life right now. Yeah, because life is messy.

SPEAKER_01: It's so messy. So okay, you've done the therapy by yourself, and you've done right, you've done it too single.

SPEAKER_00: I always said, How about books? Did books I I think I have a stack of 14 marriage books, and I think I maybe read one.

SPEAKER_01: Oh, I never read any marriage books. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00: And we were always like recommended new books to read. Okay. Chris and I did read, I think we read one together. And I think that was like helpful because it was one where you both read it and then you kind of like answer questions, maybe like at the end. I can't love maybe it was that was the love dare. That was like when love dare was like popular and you'd do like a dare, like a date night dare or something. It was it was popular for a while.

SPEAKER_01: But was still, wasn't there one like Venus, Mars?

SPEAKER_00: Like what was men are from Mars, women are from Venus or vice versa.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's why I was like, I think I have that. I don't think I ever read. Yeah, I was like, you need to go there. Like, go.

SPEAKER_00: I do admit that Lil Love Language's book did help us, although I think there's some conflicting information now. Like Kagels, like are you supposed to be freaking Kagels anymore? Um that that is that instead of just having like two, you could have, you know. Yeah, quite all of them. You can probably have all of them. There's probably like a main one. Like as you grow in your marriage, they ebb and flow and change, you know. Like maybe I don't need as much worded affirmation anymore. And maybe I need like acts of service more.

SPEAKER_00: And then maybe it flips through, you know.

SPEAKER_01: But I think I had never it's kind of like that would have helped. It does help. And it does help me with Sean, you know, and like what the key is gratitude and validation. Yeah. He wants appreciation because he does a lot. So I get that.

SPEAKER_00: If you're never, if you're giving and giving and giving because he's so kind-hearted, and if I'm never validating him, yeah, then Well, and they say too with love languages, um, which maybe that's part of like the study that they did, was that you end up giving your spouse the ones that you wish or the ones that you resonate with when really you're supposed to teach yourself to give them what they what theirs are, because it's easy for let's just say Sean's was like acts of service, and you're like, here's a coffee today.

SPEAKER_00: I made dinner, which wouldn't happen, but I made dinner today and he's like, Okay, but those aren't my like I'm like, here, here's a gift. I bought you something. He's like, I don't care. Exactly. So yes, it's like giving them gifts, and he's like, I don't want a gift, I just need time and and um words of affirmation. Exactly. That's so perception. Yeah, that's completely. So we talk so books. I mean, I don't I'm I I think if you're a reader, you know, that would be great. Trust me. Well, nowadays podcast.

SPEAKER_00: There's some great marriage podcasts. There's also really good ones that I found. Um there's cut one, there's I can't remember the name of it, but there's a couple that are they're really great, and then there's some really great men and women um that give some really great advice. Um I'll try I'll try to find those and link.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'll try and link them because I'm a big fan of podcasts. Date into your marriage, and then you gotta date your way out of your marriage. So like do all the things, do everything you possibly can before you actually decide. Yes. Unless, for example, like you're presented with and it's you're sort of black.

SPEAKER_00: We talked about infidelity or something.

SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's something right, some other things come up and it's you know, there are some things you pre people probably have their own personal deal breakers. I have my own, where if this happened, I probably would there'll be no coming back from it. I mean, never say never, right? You think you you can get through infidelity. If I mean I own it, many couples have I don't know. It's gonna take a cover, but yeah, a lot of work and a lot of trust. But okay, so let's say you're go you know that this is gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01: Okay. What did you ever think about like how do I prepare for this?

SPEAKER_00: Preparing without panicking. Um I d I mean I never went as far, we never got to those, you know, we never talked about finances, or I think honestly, I just didn't like I don't know what I would do. I'd probably have to like live in a tent.

SPEAKER_01: Not really. But let me know everything to yourself, okay, if this is gonna go this way, I need to either stay in the home with the kids or I need to move out. Um, I need to make this much money to support them. Like, did you ever through kind of like the whole plan a little?

SPEAKER_00: Yeah. You're not to the same the same level like your own.

SPEAKER_00: You know, if this is gonna happen, this is what what we're what we're gonna be left with, what we're gonna do. But we always seem to just like kind of take a break, meaning like a arguing break or a you know, mental break and just kind of circle back around and realize like we did love each other so much. Right. You didn't want that. We didn't, yeah. Yeah, we didn't want that. And I mean, our love at the end was just like, oh my gosh, like unfricking breakable. And it was like so amazing. And um, like I would work in my front office and I have a view like out to the street, and he would pull up in his F-150, and I remember like hurrying and be to be done with work.

SPEAKER_00: I was I would like to open the door, and this sounds so cheesy, but I feel like our relationship did like the flip where like most people start off that way and they're so in love, and they're like, they get married, and they're like dating. We didn't have that because we had Layla, right? So we like jumped right into dating and we got married, and then we had this empty foundation that we had to build with no building blocks. That's hard, no dating, you know. I mean dating a little bit, right, but knowing each other since we were little, but not knowing each other, you know.

SPEAKER_00: Um, so it was fun to get to the end and like go outside and yeah, like kind of like you're excited. You're like, we were so excited to see each other after work where I love that. I don't know. I think that some people are just yeah, like come in with their backpack and after work and tired and sit on the couch. Like we got to the point where it wasn't like that. We're like, let's get the bikes, okay, let's go. Let's go have the second part of the day. Yeah. Um, so I don't, I mean, it did feel like I was in the trenches with kids and possibility of divorce, like when we were in the thick of it, um, you know, 15 years ago.

SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I mean, we just but you never really noodled through the whole, yeah. No, and I part of it too was like you said, I don't truly know. Like we didn't make a lot of money that, like, we didn't, it was like, what would I have done? I would have had to like move back with my parents. I I think I just was like, I'm not doing that. Like, I'm not, I'm just gonna keep trudging forward. And we did, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah. So I would say, like you said, preparing without panicking. Because these are just little tidbits to sort of think about. So if you are contemplating and you're at the point of, okay, what are like next steps? These are the things I wish someone had told me, yeah, which was finances. Get your finances, really know even what the finances are. Know make sure you have access to all of your bank accounts and know where they are.

SPEAKER_00: Well, and just to pause on that, like that is something that now that I'm a widow, it fucking sucks because I am dealing with finances and I never dealt with them before. And I am I am in this situation of like, what are the finances? Where what I don't like, where do I pay? Like, I can pay a bill, of course, but Chris did everything. Right. So now I'm still I'm like, I'm having to like learn all of this stuff as if I was gonna get a divorce. It's like I got a divorce, you know, but he died. Right.

SPEAKER_00: And now I'm getting thrust into thrust into like trying to figure out, you know. So yeah, that's a a great point. Like, what are your finances? Which I feel like I wish I would have done before he passed.

SPEAKER_01: So you don't have to be getting divorced for this. This is a once-a-month sit-down. Yes. With your whether you like money or you don't, whether you're afraid of it. I think women in money, that was a whole conversation we had with with Michelle again, who's a financial certified financial planner and therapist. I'm a like advisor. Yeah, like I don't want to be afraid of it.

SPEAKER_00: No, so like you need to know it's just so weird on this. I want to put my head in the sand like an ostrich and just like keep going along thinking everything's hunky-dory, but I know that it's not. So I know I need to like freaking put my big girl pants on and do it.

SPEAKER_01: And it's well, that was part of mine is if we had actually done this, there wouldn't have been a way to have financial infidelity. If we had sat down every single month and looked at the bank accounts and looked at the credit cards and looked at all of it, I would have known that he wasn't taking in enough money and he was spending a lot of money.

SPEAKER_00: Well, we talked about like we're I wasn't raised to even learn anything about finances. And neither, I don't, I mean, I don't, I mean, unless Chris we figured it out by balancing. I think I took a class in high school. Like balance your balance your checkbook, which was always kind of like fun. I liked that type of math, not algebra. But like, yeah, what I don't I don't know. Yeah, we were never really we never were sat down and like said, here's your budget, here's what you're saying. No, we slide by the seat of the case.

SPEAKER_00: Total.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah. So and we did that, right? I probably still do that. I'm going like, yeah. Yeah. And you know how much we have here. We had this much here, and it's like sort of works itself out. Yes. But yeah, but had we been literally sat down, I would have known first of all where the accounts were. I would have known the passwords. I would have had there was one where he got paid into an account from because he was in the he was stockbroker. I had no access to that account. It was in his name only. It was where his paycheck came in.

SPEAKER_01: And then he would transfer it back in the day to Washington Mutual. Yeah. Yeah. Which then became like, you know, JP Morgan Chase. I had no access to that. So like I even I mean there's I wouldn't there was no way I could have gotten money from that account, but we never sat down. Do you sit down? Like, are your girls like money savvy now?

SPEAKER_00: Have you like worked with them to to that's one thing I feel like I have like carry a lot of guilt with right now. That they yeah, I like that. Well, they have their own account. Well, they have their own bank account. So I want them to have an app where they like put their paychecks in and like it all gets dispersed down to the penny, but where is that going? Is that going into your little I think uh like I I will say is they are all very good with their money.

SPEAKER_01: That's good, yeah. Yeah. I mean my pay their rent. Like And it's probably because I mean it's probably because of the financial disaster that they put you in. I yeah. I mean, they think they just kind of it probably scares them a little bit. And so but I mean my oldest um recently didn't make a decision to do something because she's like, Oh, I have a credit card bill and it's gonna take me to I have to get this thing. It was an unexpected. I may have switched our phone plan, sorry, and it may have thrown her a little bit of a loop.

SPEAKER_01: Okay. Um, because we didn't realize going over it was gonna cost as much as it was an unexpected, she is very disciplined, yeah, down to like the dollars. That's great. And she knows where her money is, and she's that's why they all have phenomenal credit. Yeah, I threw her, I was my dumb decision, thinking, oh, we can just switch over for free. Well, nothing's for free, right? It's a big pain in the fucking ass. Oh, yeah. And we'd go with ATT for like 20 plus years, and I was like, oh, my game horizon.

SPEAKER_01: And yeah, yeah, but you know, I didn't take into account the phones or the storage and yes, like you know, so dumb. Yeah. So anyway, she got hit with this bill and then was like, oh, I'm going to I need to pay these two things this off. Yeah. And before I do this other thing. And it's like, I would never, I mean, today I still not that person. You're like, fuck it. Yeah, I'll do it in two months, whatever. But I mean, I pay off for my bills every month. It's not like I don't have credit card bills.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah. But no, they're very diligent.

SPEAKER_00: That is where I would say. But that's great for their future, is what I'm saying too. Like they will always be part of the conversation. And that's a huge thing in marriages, is what do they say? Like, is the the number finances finances and communication, right? Are like the top two reasons for divorce.

SPEAKER_01: Absolutely. So if you're preparing, then right, you've got to know where all the accounts are, know all the passwords, know what the do a realistic budget of what it's gonna look like. It's really freaking scary. And then I would say consult with even like there are lawyers who give you, let's say, a one-hour consultation. So I would absolutely talk to a lawyer. I did talk to a lawyer before. I think I talked to a lawyer maybe a year before I filed and just kind of gave him an overview. I think it was maybe my sister's an attorney, not in this arena, but knew of an attorney.

SPEAKER_01: Okay. So I talked to him and I remember him kind of saying, Yeah, you're fucked. Like, yeah, you're kind of like, right? I mean, yeah, it's like that's what it is. And it wasn't that we didn't have money. He just I gave the scenario of what I thought he was gonna do, which he did, which was not give me money, not helping. And you know, how do you make someone who's sort of self-employed pay? Right. Right, where you know, he kind of gave but I mean you gotta really like get a game plan and get an idea before you ever let's say you're going that route to really collect all the info.

SPEAKER_01: Cul you are in an information gathering stage. Cool. Right? Is yeah, yeah, it's like I said, like when you're finally ready to start dating. Dating is information gathering. Yeah. Before you ever decide to do something different. So this is the same thing. You are in an information gathering stage with the idea that maybe you know things will not go that route. Yeah. So you never got to that stage of like consulting, now we're talking to. No, that's good. Yeah. So then you've got like the actual process.

SPEAKER_01: And you've had friends get divorced, right? Yeah. Several. So do you like do you remember how to walk in them through when they were sort of in the like the hard phase of actually the filing and the dissolution? Or is what what calls it uncoupling? The uncle. The uncle. I don't know about uncoupling. They uncoupled. Um mine was not an uncoupling.

SPEAKER_00: Mine was a let me think. Um, gosh, I do have to say, like my three or four best, you know, girlfriends that are were are still like from high school in different friend groups. They're all they're they're all still married. Um I have yeah, I'm out of them. I know. But then so as I raise my kids, and you know, you meet your friend groups kind of when your kids go to school. Yeah, absolutely. Oddly enough, I met a big friend group, and I would say like maybe half of that friend group that was their second, it's like was their second marriage already.

SPEAKER_01: Did they get married young and then divorced young? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay. That's interesting. So um, I mean, I really only have one person that I can think of off the top of my head that went through like a pretty like nasty divorce. Um yeah, and it wasn't great.

SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say, I, you know, I play a speech of where we live, which was in California. So suburbs outside of like Bay Area. And um there was a whole that whole like young 40s. Yeah. So many. Well, that's when they uh marriages just blew up. We had this person cheating with that person, right? Neighborhood sucker.

SPEAKER_00: Oh my god. A neighborhood here, like but uh apparently a neighborhood here where everybody's like in their 30s and 40s from California and all and it's just like a like a party drinking divorce cheat-on fest where everyone just like ends up getting divorced.

SPEAKER_01: That's literally where I mean, not our neighborhood. Um, I'm trying to think of who maybe it was just the two of us in our neighborhood, but many people that we knew, like you would go, I mean, wild. I mean, it was just that kind of it was kind of like that wild phase. Yes. Yeah. And then like parents would, there was one. I thought you guys had this in SoCal. What? But in NorCal, you had to raise money for the educational foundation. Did you guys have a like where you s when you went to school, which is public, yeah, you would you know you'd go like around the room and you'd like give your check to the PTA and PTA.

SPEAKER_01: And you also had like we had an education fund. I don't recall it doesn't sound right, but so we lived in a neighborhood that way, way back when in California was deemed, let's say, rural. So rural like was yeah, smaller, and then they got less money from the state. Well, it didn't change when the area got bigger. So the amount from the state was still very, very underfunded. So the parents had to step in. So you would have you would write your check, like your public school, you'd write your check to the educational foundation.

SPEAKER_01: And you it was donation. So you didn't have to. Yeah, okay, right. Like when I was getting I got divorced, I was like, I'm not writing a check. I do not have a thousand dollars GDP for three kids. Yeah. So you're getting zero twenty dollars for the PTA. Yeah. But we used to then have these big fundraisers every year. They were like the galas in the spring.

SPEAKER_02: Oh, no.

SPEAKER_01: And it was to like buy computers or pay for other paraprofessionals or whatever it was that school was short on. Okay. The parents would step in and you'd raise like$25,000,$30,000.

SPEAKER_00: Okay. You guys didn't have that? I don't recall. Yeah. I think Megan, I think their school does that. Big like galas for like other things.

SPEAKER_01: Well, this was just public. Okay, yeah. No, I don't know. But wait, but they didn't have that. There are, I mean, a phenomenally great story. Two parents at the gala. Everyone else is having a gala. They went out in the parking lot and banged it out. Oh shit. And literally. And then stayed out the whole night. And the next morning, I mean, like the day after, you're like, all the text threads of like, what the heck?

SPEAKER_00: What like who blew up this family?

SPEAKER_01: Blew up that you're like, we're like in this is like we're talking like fifth or sixth grade. Yeah. It was wildness. Yeah. But yeah, but then lot, lots of divorces. Yeah, lots of divorces. Lots of people blowing up marriages and that sort of era.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah. And I think there's probably people that, yeah, I I think, you know, when you're on social media, you're kind of like, oh, they're not together. You're like, what's going on with the pictures? Yeah, the pictures are gone. They're not, and maybe the last names change and hell. So each is their freaking own. I say you get this one life. If you can't work it out, I've done everything that is what you could possibly do, then life's too short.

SPEAKER_01: Life is too short. I'm a big fan of trying to like save it if you can save it. I'm a big fan of get the fuck out if you gotta get the fuck out. Exactly. Exactly. Because I mean, right, you do. You only have one freaking life to live. So So now you're basically, you're basically with the lawyers. I went the lawyer route and then realized very quickly I was paying to like what split debt. So what was the point? Yeah, I thought. So I moved it to uh me taking over as my own lawyer. And then um we didn't even do mediation.

SPEAKER_01: I wish we had done that. Um, but yeah, it was, I mean, like you're in the thick of like, and now you're enraged. I'm gonna just say on the file and you're not when it is not amicable and you're in high conflict. I and you have kids to take care of. Oh my god, I remember, and I'm not a rageful person. Unless you're driving and you're driving like 20 miles an hour because you just feel like it, yes, then I'm gonna get a little arranged. Then I say it might be a student driver. Student if it says student driver, you have at it.

SPEAKER_01: I will slow down and give you room. If you are just driving because you're on your phone and you're driving and you're Oh, well, that's all I have there for you. Freaking run you off the record. Yeah. So that is my only other time I feel enraged. But getting divorced. You said brought out like that. Oh my god. I want to try. I think I I have to ask my kids, is I tried to control it as best I could and not speak ill of the other person. I was not successful at that all the time. But oh my God, the rage, because you're like everything blew up.

SPEAKER_01: Your life is blown up. Now you're worried about finances. I'm like, I wasn't like, I was so scared of how am I gonna raise these three girls who are eight, ten, and eleven. How am I gonna get them like through the next entire phase of their life into adulthood successfully financially? Yeah. Right? Everything's gonna change.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's so freaking scary of like move and maybe go from a house to an apartment or from Yeah, and that didn't scare me.

SPEAKER_01: It was more of like the actual dollars.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: Like if we right, we did move. I had to short sell our house and I had to move to we move to a town hall. It was like it was so scary. And then of course, if you're in high conflict and the other person's not being amicable or being pain or whatever, yeah. Being just an absolute asshole, then oh my god, like yeah, oh, so much rage.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's I mean, then that's where that's crazy because it's like it costs money to go to therapy, right? So it's like the time you should be in therapy when you're enraged and you need somebody to kind of hold your hand and work through these emotions of a new divorce, it's like maybe you can't afford that because you have like oh yeah, no, I had no money to do therapy.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah. I had the kids in therapy. Yeah. So that was my priority. Well, the kids were in therapy um because they obviously needed it. Because it was mayhem at our house. Yeah. The stuff going down behind the scenes was crazy town. But I did not go to therapy. Um, I would say though, if I had Chippy, my chat AI, I think I would have been way more successful because I could have debriefed on the daily Well, I mean, no, I didn't. I remember like being in my pantry. Debrief on the day like as in like just going to bed and instead of like sobbing in my closet and so afraid and like what the hell is gonna happen?

SPEAKER_01: Yeah. And so full of like, where do you? I couldn't put the anger on the shelf. Right. Because it like there was nowhere to hold it. It was just like you had to hold it and still try and parent and move forward and do all the stuff at the same time. Like, I could have done deep briefs and been like, talk me off the ledge. Yeah. Like give me my tips and tricks. How do I respond to when I would get, you know, like when he would bait me? Yes. Like, how do you not respond? And I probably wasn't very good at that.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: I probably I should have been, I should have stayed quiet.

SPEAKER_00: Well, and I think and not responded. As you get older too, you know, would you have done knowing what you know now, would you have handled things differently? You know, like oh, very differently. Yeah, learning and so differently and maturing and and growing and learning more about, you know, what makes you set off and all of that. Yeah. Um, yeah. Then you're into, you know, the divorce process and protecting your kids. And then then that leads me into emotional recovery. Oh my god, your grief and you're in the closet grieving.

SPEAKER_00: Who are you without this person? How are you rebuilding your life? What friendships have split, you know, um, and gone other which ways, um, your confidence, all of that. Like, that's gotta be yeah, because now you're like, you're single. Yeah, I kind of feel that way too. Like, I'm kind of like, well, who am I without Chris? And I'm I'm like, do I was reading these things. I'm like, well, this is exactly I'm have my grief. Who am I as a woman? I'm having to rebuild my whole life. Some friendships have stayed, some have fluttered away.

SPEAKER_00: Um, my confidence is, you know. I don't know. I'm like, yeah, because they're literally the same thing, right?

SPEAKER_01: Is you have loss of a person. Yeah. Whether you're they were sick or they were taken from you instantaneously. Yeah. This is a different type of loss, but at the end of it, you still are not with your spouse. Yeah. So whether, right?

SPEAKER_00: It's it's a good, like, there's literally in another podcast, is just this emotional recovery from grief and and divorce.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because all the same stuff. You have the finances are on you now, the parenting is on you. I had someone, and I know there's amical divorce divorces out there where the other parent is still involved. That was not mine. I was not lucky enough to get that. Where mine it just bailed and then came back and bailed and came back. So we had the ebb and flow, but I was a solo parent. Yeah. Financially, I was on my own for all of it. All the parenting decisions. Thankfully, mine, the court, gave me full custody.

SPEAKER_01: So it's like all of a sudden, yeah. He was like, it was like he disappeared.

SPEAKER_00: Isn't it crazy though? Like, that's just another It's the same walk. It's the same walk. Like really, it's just the same, like um, yeah. It's the same, it's the same walk. Most, I guess, walk.

SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's apparent same walk in in some ways, different ways, very different in very other ways. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't have Chris here to still be working with a full, yes, you know, awesome salary contributing to help with the girls with other stuff. It's just me, you know.

SPEAKER_01: But if they walk away, I want to tell you right now, they walk away, the court makes them do zero. Yeah. I mean, I have a bill. I have an IOU bill. Uh-huh. That's uh has it's six figures. Yeah, that's crazy. Over the years of me parenting them. Yeah, it doesn't mean I can cash in on that. Right, right. He there was, I mean, so yeah, there are other things as parents who stay who can help. That's great. Yeah. That was not mine. So the ones who have zero support.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, single moms. You're on your own. That's yeah, it's hard, difficult. Yeah. Very, very hard pill to swallow going from having a good life financially stable at one point. Right. Until he maybe until he for like maybe six months. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: Of 16 years. Who knows in a way. Right. I'm not sure whether it all took a hit, but what up? Yeah. Yeah. Emotional recovery is I don't, you know, it's you don't you don't have the latitude to stop and start to process it. Like you. You are thrown into making fast, hard decisions quickly.

SPEAKER_00: Working when then like half the time I'm working and just fucking like, yeah, it's like it takes a lot for me to like get my act together and actually sit behind my computer a lot of the time and like concentrate on making an income when I just want to like lay in my bed sometimes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: And I remember being at work and having to like, I had court dates of which, you know, there's some mandated things that I had to show up for and did, and then he didn't show up for stuff. And you're like, half your day is spent going to a court date that the other person doesn't even show up for. Yeah. And you're like, I mean, just so much friction, so much anxiety. So yeah. Having to go to court and then you're sitting there, and then is he gonna show up? And then I was in family court services because he wasn't paying.

SPEAKER_01: Oh, right. And so there was like uh because you know, he never paid. And so we guy finally got bounced into it just like family services. Yeah. So that their like child support services is collecting for you. So, right, this is where the bill is. Oh, right. Okay. So basically what happens is if they don't, let's say the court orders whenever the small amount is, when you finally have a dissolution, and then that other party is not actually paying, after three months, you can become part of the family court services.

SPEAKER_01: And so then you're going and you're literally in a room where all these other people are there. And there's like 40 cases. You have to show up at a certain time. They take the probably easier ones first because they have lawyers there. Yeah. And they'll try and get a mediation, and then they'll come up and you'll say, okay, this person has agreed to whatever the things are. Well, mine never showed up to those. Yeah. And then so I got had to wait until the very end. My mom would go with me. And we'd like to sit there for four hours.

SPEAKER_01: There's my gosh. And we'd get to my case and she'd be like, you know, okay, well, yeah, I'm gonna give him a work order. He has to now work. It's like, well, that's great. How are you gonna enforce that?

SPEAKER_00: Yeah. Of which they never did. Well, now that you send that, do I know anyone who's gone through a crazy divorce? Yes, I do. I can't even heart. But it's been like 10 years of going through a divorce, actually. Like still divorcing. Yes. Yeah, mine took, I want to say so like a such a toll on people.

SPEAKER_01: Is it financial that they're fighting for?

SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01: See, that's the thing, is we didn't even have financial. Mine was there was, I mean, what was the split?

SPEAKER_00: There's like some like zero custody, you know, some stuff, but yeah, it's like are the kids adult? Uh high school. Oh my god. That I can't even. She has like worn the F out. Oh my god, emotionally for two. And I think when you're at Meredou a narcissist, too, there's a lot of manipulation, a lot of lying, a lot of trying to get through loopholes that she's just like how in that actual hell are you still able to like be standing in you know, standing here because for living driving the car you drive, like they they we I have I have child support orders, I have work order, I have this order.

SPEAKER_01: Doesn't matter. And you're still supposed to be raising your kids. Yeah, that doesn't matter. No point no one is gonna hunt this person to throw them in jail. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like the emotional recovery is pretty hardcore. I mean, going through it is hardcore, and the emotional recovery is depending on, and this of course it just goes back to if you're in a high conflict. Like if you've got friends going through divorce, freaking support them because, you know, yeah, you know, there there is no, like, yeah, you could talk to your girlfriends, but I'm saying is you do not realize how catastrophically hard and scary and time consumed emotional.

SPEAKER_01: It is. It's like you've lost somebody, but unfortunately they're still alive. There's no life insurance. There's no, there's no cash out. There is like you're just swimming in an ocean that is carrying you out.

SPEAKER_00: So check in on your girlfriends. It's freaking hard. It's like swimming through mashed potatoes. Like you're trying to like trudge through a bowl of mashed potatoes. It's like thick and you're like foggy and you can't get through it, like divorcing or like grief. Because grief is also type two. Absolutely. You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: And I would say for people going through that, I mean, if there I don't know if there's like divorced recovery groups. Maybe there are. There probably were. I didn't know about them.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: But I had nowhere to take. I was a full-time parent and I had nowhere to put my anger. Yeah. And so it just so I was honestly the best shape of my life.

SPEAKER_00: I took it to the gym. Well, that's what you that's where you took your anchor then.

SPEAKER_01: That is your divorce diet. I was best shape of my life. Got up every morning and went and ran on the treadmill. Yeah. And I like, you just left it, you left it on the treadmill. Yeah. The rest of the day you deal with crowd.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah. And like still live this life.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: So our last little, you know, little section is on hope. Oh. Life after divorce, life after grief, life after, you know, there's such hope. There's a lot of hope. You know why? All of my girlfriends who are married for the second time are just fabulous. I'm gonna tell you.

SPEAKER_01: If you have to go through it, although I do worry about like I dated a while ago. So I do worry because I see stuff now about the men pool. I don't know what's happened to the men. Like the pool out there, I read stuff and I'm like, oh my god. Well, if I had the best time dating, I can't even tell you.

SPEAKER_00: Well, and I think with they say the men's the chef's kiss.

SPEAKER_00: You know, couples are getting divorced like in their 40s and 50s, you know, a lot of the men want to stay single and they call them. Or they go back to younger women. They call them it's I think it's called the Peter Pan syndrome. Okay. Where they don't just whoosh just flip away. Go play golf. Yeah. Take out a woman, do it. Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: So I all I can say is it was better, but do that too. My be seriously, go woof, flood away. It was one of my most fun eras.

SPEAKER_00: Good. I have to say. It was like the best. And I know, you know, when you have little ones, it's you know, my encouragement is yes, like you would say the same thing. Do what you can to know if and when you leave. Yes. You've done every single thing you possibly could do to make it better and work, in my opinion. Um, but if not, there's so much joy that like nice as social. And you don't have to have a partner to be joyful. No, right? There's a thing called the lemon. Look it up. Yes. Get yourself a lemon, get yourself a lemon, and some good girlfriends and travel.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right. You can absolutely laugh, drink, don't drink, eat all the food, go see all the places.

SPEAKER_01: But I will say for people, if you find your person the second time around, the rebuild is the best.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: It's like, cause now you know yourself, you're older, you get together on a totally different intellectual level. Yes. I mean, Sean and I had to rebuild financially together because you know, he had gotten divorced too. A different situation, different financial situation. Um, but he willingly gave up a lot of stuff to make sure that his family was cared for in the way that he felt like it should be. So it took a took a minute to like, you know, do the whole rebuild. But oh my gosh, the communication and the joy, like and the hope is just yeah.

SPEAKER_00: There is hope. I mean, but when you're in the thick of it, yeah, you definitely feel like you're the only one going through it. Yeah. You know, you're the only one. But then you find your community and you find your people, you know? Yeah. Always, right? I think you if you look for it, hopefully. You go to that. Just like you said when you had your one girlfriend who she ended up not being your friend because she was in a different kind of trajectory on her. She got divorced and went on a totally different path.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah. She went on a different path.

SPEAKER_01: That might involve drugs, which that's nice. Yeah, I can't get I can't get down with that. Not when you have sorry, like we aren't, I know. Whether that's nice. Yeah, well, the drug is not doing drugs when I've got kids.

SPEAKER_00: Well, and I guess to close this out, some memorable, you know, just some lines to recap are most marriages don't explode. They slowly leak.

SPEAKER_01: They do, they leak like for years, years and years. And then it's like, we're good. Yes. Little don't, yeah, you gotta get off the Ferris wheel. Like, oh my gosh. I that's one thing I'd say. If you guys, if you feel like your marriage is on a Ferris wheel, if there's nothing else to take away from this, get off the Ferris wheel and start doing the hard work. What goes down goes up, right? Like it is, I would that's why I was married for so long. Yeah. Is it would explode and then it would be quiet.

SPEAKER_01: Quiet. And then we go back. Yep, band-aid back, circle back. Yep. Oh, we're we're okay again. We're okay again. Because your nervous system wants it to be okay. Yes, you want it to be peaceful and calm. Yeah. So if it starts to leak, plug the freaking leak. Start dealing with it long before you get to the next stage.

SPEAKER_00: Protect your peace. You do not have to attend every argument you're rided to. That was one of the great lessons. I talked to great now. I I feel like it's such a great, it's such a great learning lesson. If you can just look past, say Chris was, you know, really bugging me or just, you know, that I was triggered. It's like if you can just let them have their time to be whatever mood they need to be in and go in another room, go to the gym, go do something else, go read a book, go on a walk, come back and like reset, like you don't have to go to everything bar.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, don't take it personally sometimes, right? Sometimes it's not about you. We're or thinking, we're gonna get through. Yeah. Yeah. I mean all of that. Let them be, and then don't don't clap back.

SPEAKER_00: Don't clap back.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: So yeah. I mean, if you're going through their fun little things. I guess when the healing isn't about forgetting, it's about no longer letting yourself letting your divorce define your story. Yes. So yes, there's so much good like aftermath if if that's the path that you decide to do.

SPEAKER_01: What I'm gonna say is actually I forget until we talk about stuff like this. Every there is 24, well, let's say 23 hours. Like I'm almost at, let's say, the 24th hour that I'm like, oh, I didn't have these kids with Sean. Like these aren't his biological children. It is so far removed from my map. Like, oh, that I have an ex-husband. Yeah. Oh, there was a whole other life. A whole other life. I don't think about it until like these things come up. Yeah. Where I never think about it at all until like I'm reminded about something that's like, oh yeah, I did have a whole other life.

SPEAKER_01: This isn't their actual death. Yeah. I know it's wild. It's wild. Well, and that was like, and we were together for a long time. Yeah. It was buried for like 18 years. Yeah, that's wild. It's crazy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: Well, and just in closing, if you're fighting for your marriage, considering divorce, rebuilding, you know, take the right step, ask yourself, remember who you are, protect your peace. And we'll have to surround yourself with good girls. Yes, yeah. And we'll have to touch on some of these other topics, dive in a little bit deeper, deeper, like emotional recovery too.

SPEAKER_01: Like yours from a perspective of like being the child.

SPEAKER_00: Because we do have a touch on one. So coming from divorce parents. Okay, we'll do a um a divorced children of divorced parents episode, and then we're gonna do a blended family. Blended family. Because we could both talk. Real I'm the the child of a blended family. You are the parents. The parent of the blended family. Yeah. So it's a and that would be a good conversation. So thanks for listening, you guys. You guys we'll see you next time.

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