Midlife Finances After Divorce | Starting Over & Rebuilding Wealth - WTF Just Happened?

SPEAKER_03: This is What the F Just Happened.

SPEAKER_01: The podcast that proves life is messy, midlife is so wild, and laughter is definitely non-negotiable.

SPEAKER_03: So grab a cocktail or a mocktail or your favorite emotionally supportive snack, and let's get into it.

SPEAKER_02: Hello everyone, and thanks for joining us today on WTF Just Happened, what the F Just Happened podcast. Um, we have such an amazing, beautiful, special guest here today. Her name is Michelle. Um, so just to start, the episode titled Today is Starting Over Financially, What Women Need After Divorce, Death, or a Financial Affair. And so this is Michelle right here next to us. Um, Michelle Perry Higgins is a principal and financial advisor with California Financial Advisors in San Ramon, California.

SPEAKER_02: And she's also, which we can't wait to hear about, a certified financial therapist. Uh, she has advised clients for nearly 30 years, uh, specializing in wealth management. We cannot wait to hear about that. Uh, her firm manages over$2 billion in assets. I know, it's just so wild, uh, under management. And she has been featured on so many amazing um CMBC, CBS, Fox. Uh, she has been named one of Invested Opedias, that's a hard word, top 100 most influential financial advisors, um, an investment news excellence awardee for advisor of the year, uh, regional west, and one of Advisor Hub's women advisors to watch.

SPEAKER_02: She is also the author, which this is like blows my mind, of three um Amazon best-selling books focused on financial organization, balance, and financial literacy. So, Michelle Perry Higgins, welcome to our podcast. We are so happy to have you. And this is going to be so amazing for so many women. Thank you. Thank you. And congratulations on the launch of this successful podcast.

SPEAKER_00: I love it.

SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh. So happy to have you. Okay, so kick us off with which I had never heard is certified financial therapist, which obviously I need in my life. So tell me what is that?

SPEAKER_00: So, uh a certified financial therapist is someone who is trained in the intersection, if you you want to think of it that way, of emotion, psychology, finances, and psychology. So, you know, for years, for decades, as financial advisors, we always joke we're part therapists. Right. Um, we want to listen, we want to really hear what people are saying. And I um always want to understand the why. Why did she make that decision? Why is he panicking right now? Why why are they so upset? There's nothing to be emotional about.

SPEAKER_00: And so I always was saying, let's peel back the onion more, let's just pause on talking about the numbers, let's get to the nitty-gritty. Wow. And so several years ago, um, I don't know, kids go off to school and I'm an empty nester and I think I have more time, which really was not the case. But I decided to dig into this designation because I truly have just this passion of truly understanding the why. If I could stop someone from making a poor decision during the height of emotion, I want to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00: I want to add value there. So that's really what it is. The psychology of money.

SPEAKER_03: Which makes so much sense because I mean, money, I think, is one of the, you know, it's we all we all have it. We all have to have it in our lives to make things churn. And it's really freaking scary when you don't really know what to deal with it. Right. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: And well, Hillary and I were briefly talking before um you came on last night. Um, we were talking about just the scarcity of money when you have been um, like um, when your money has not been treated right by other people in your family and how it makes you nervous to move forward and kind of frozen in any other money situation. You just kind of keep everything as is and like hope it grows.

unknown: Right.

SPEAKER_03: Well, and we'll we'll talk about that because I had messaged Michelle earlier with you on it to say that my my huge, my biggest challenge is not trusting the market, which I think over the long term, if you're investing, it will it will continue to grow. If it's not, let's say I'm not trying to put it in today and get it out tomorrow. It's trusting the person is how that's and I this I'm 14 years past my divorce and 14 years past that kind of trauma. And that trauma I have not resolved because I feel very raw.

SPEAKER_03: Very raw. Like I it I don't panic easily or feel a lot of stuff. And I when we talk about this stuff in the market, it like makes me sick to my stomach almost. Oh interesting. Yeah, so we can certainly like get into that because we're gonna dig into that. Okay, let's dig into that, right? Okay, so so the first thing that's kind of like run through is what, in your opinion, does starting over financially actually mean for women in these situations and the situations being post-divorce or about to maybe get a divorce or losing a spouse.

SPEAKER_03: And all of a sudden you're like delving now, you're the single, you're the single person handling all your money for the first time. So talk to me, and we'll talk about financial affair as well, because that's obviously something I lived. Right. Talk to me about that part.

SPEAKER_00: The really the first I would say, well, there's many emotions that come with all three of these uh scenarios that we will talk about. But the most important thing is the acceptance that responsibility is now shifting a hundred percent from your partner to you. If you did not handle the finances solely in your marriage or your relationship, which is rare at this point. Women, a lot of women pay the bills, but do they do the taxes? Do they talk to the accountant? Do they go to the financial advisor?

SPEAKER_00: Typically, it's not as high as what we see with men. And so that responsibility shift is really the first thing that we have to acknowledge. We have to just uh say, okay, it's all me. There's no one I'm shifting the blame on. There's no one I'm gonna look to anymore. I'm gonna step up and make that decision. And that is really where it percolates all these emotions and panic. Yes. Um, and with the hope you understand you've got a team around you that's gonna help you make those decisions. Right.

SPEAKER_00: But truly at the end of the day, you're make it's the big shift to call that.

SPEAKER_03: Right. Which is that's huge. I mean, right, especially in the moment of like now crises is right, right? That's like an extra layer being put on you. So that was me. Yes, right, yes, absolutely. Like one day, right? And then one day me, all of a sudden phone call and we have no money, right? We are in like massive amounts of debt that I'm not even aware of. Yeah, where I sort of just chunning a law.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so it's interesting because widows go through this. You you both went through this array of emotion initially. Yes. Um, widows, you go through this grief along with oh my gosh, I'm the big shift of responsibility is coming on me. Yeah, but it's underlined with grief. Yeah. The financial affairs or just a raw divorce is more, you know, the emotion the emotions are more driven out of bitter rage, anger. Seeing red along with the big shift. Seeing red is very difficult to make prudent decisions when you're seeing red.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah. And there's a long period of that. And of course, as women, we do not give ourselves grace in taking a moment to pause to be healthy so you can make those decisions prudently.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, as I mean, you're sort of thrown into and Sata for you, obviously, instantaneously, you're sort of thrown into, I have to I have to react now, right? I don't like the grace of like, I have to make Yes.

SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh, there's um a trash bill account somewhere that I have to pay. Okay, I have to find out where that is. And there's a, you know, I'm our house payment. Like, yeah, everything was digging and and also trying to, you know, get myself up in the day and figure out, you know, what I was supposed to do with my kids and kids. Yeah. So yeah, so there was a lot of um, that was hard for me because it was mostly Chris paying and doing everything on that end. And he would say, like, okay, no more buying, like, let's let's cool it on Amazon this month.

SPEAKER_02: I'm like, oh no.

SPEAKER_00: So he did, he paid all the bills, handled the estate planning, the taxes, and he would just tell you, okay, let's curb our spending. Yeah, I mean the extent of the cash flow that you saw.

SPEAKER_02: You now we both made we both had salaries. Um, but yeah, and we didn't do any estate planning before he passed. So I know we'll talk about that, but we that was uh that was a little bit of seeing red for me, if I'm being honest. So that was, you know, just because I felt angry that we hadn't taken care of that. And then I, I mean, Hillary went with me to do all of that. And thank the Lord I had, you know, my girlfriends um to kind of guide me. But yeah, there was a lot of kind of putting my head in the sand too, not wanting to deal with it, not wanting to realize this was my reality of all of the responsibility was now on me.

SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I would pay, you know, he did all the bills and did our house payment and did, you know, like he did most everything.

SPEAKER_00: Do you mind sharing with your guests why during your marriage you didn't want to sit down or actively sit down with him? And this is the same for you, Hillary, because it doesn't sound like you did that. Give me, give us an understanding of why you didn't say, Hey, let's sit down and go through the finances so I have an understanding.

SPEAKER_02: Honestly, we just never had that kind of taught to us. I did do all of the finances in the early part of our years. Um, and when we moved a couple times and switched jobs, I think I think he was like, I'm pretty sure there was a time where I was like, I need you to step up and like take on some of this. So then I he's like, Great, easy, I'll do it. You know, so he took it all and I took the kids. And like I was mom, stay at home, also working. He worked and did that. So I felt like it was just there was no real rhyme or reason.

SPEAKER_02: It was just maybe me feeling overwhelmed that I was kind of doing all the finances and doing the taxes in the early years. So it's not like I didn't have any idea of trying to do any of this. I just knew it was off my plate for many, many years, and it felt awesome that I didn't have to worry about that every month. And I could just worry about a lot of other things. Like I have a daughter with Crohn's. There was, I am, I I spent almost a full-time job on the phone with healthcare care workers and pharmacies.

SPEAKER_02: I couldn't do all of that for sure. So there was no, it just was our agreement. But looking back, do I wish that we had like monthly financial meetings and will I do that going forward in my life? Absolutely. But there was never a lot of financial talk growing up for me. So I didn't really, we didn't have a good foundation of that to begin with. So we just kind of flew by the seat of our pants.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah. And I same thing is I grew up with dad doing long while blessed to be stay-at-home mom and dad did all the finances. And we used to laugh because in the this is how I grew up, which actually is not sort of shocking that sort of what happened to me later in life happened was my dad would say the thing. He would say, Hey, you need to chill in on Nordstrom this month. And my mom's idea of chilling on Nordstrom would be bringing clothes home and then pretending that they were on sale.

SPEAKER_02: And she would like right line.

SPEAKER_03: You'd have these boots. I'm like, oh, these old things I had for you. Yeah, they were$100, right? And it was really like$200, but it was like she would slash it to$100. Like she did a couple of times. It just like would make me laugh. But it made me just very like eerie. Not she, not her fault, but I just didn't grow up really understanding money and like the value of it and how you manage it well. And then, of course, my former husband was in the industry. He was a financial advisor. And I assumed incorrectly that he was handling our funds.

SPEAKER_03: Right. Three little babies, right? Running the book house. Now flash forward to now, who managed the money in my house? I do. Well, we manage it together. We manage it together, but I am in charge of all of the bills. And I am in charge of getting everything together for the taxes and getting everything together. I mean, I am 100% hands-on. I know how much we have every minute of every day because it, you know, because of what happened in my past, I'm not handling. Sean is uber responsible, right?

SPEAKER_03: I mean, he is like so fiscally conservative. Bless him. He got me back on track. But he doesn't need help. He could do it on his own. But I, because of my control issue with this, definitely am very, very involved. But we grew sit down and we have a we have a master plan. And so it's not like he's just oblivious to it. He's very aware as well. But it's a very different relationship with each other. And then of course with our money. Right.

unknown: Right.

SPEAKER_02: And I will just touch on really quick when you asked me, um, you know, why didn't we sit down or why did why were was there no like real plan? If I honestly look through like a big part of people that I know, um, family, friends, and otherwise, I would say a majority of the people that I know, like the men do the finances and the women that I know, um, not all of them. So I'm not calling anybody out in particular on this podcast, but um, they're it's the same. They just kind of they're shopping and have their job.

SPEAKER_02: And like, um, I don't know that I know of very many people with like sitting down doing monthly family financial meetings, which to me seems amazing now. But I just, yeah, it's like it's what is it, our generation? It was never like we were never taught about investments and money and rental properties. And, you know, I yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, money was definitely a bit taboo to use that word with our parents' generation. And we're the generation that's that's learning, okay, we need to communicate more, we need to talk more, we need to educate our girls on how this works. And so I do feel this generational change from our parents to to, for example, my kids. Um, but what's happening, we're being forced into this. Women are being forced into this because we are seeing the greatest wealth transfer ever in history right now. And it is to women.

SPEAKER_00: So women are taking over control of the wealth of the United States. Um sadly, very few women are ready for that responsibility due to death, divorce. Okay. And so uh this has been my biggest kind of area of of champion is to educate women. This is coming. And I don't want you to put your head in the sand, and you also don't have to be as knowledgeable as me with finances, but I want you to know what is going on and to understand and to force yourself to go to those meetings with the financial planner and the accountant and the estate planner.

SPEAKER_00: You force yourself to go listen to all those meetings and participate, even though you may not understand everything they're saying. Yeah. And that's what's hard. Even with my girlfriends, I hate I nail them. Come on, let's go, you know, and right they it's easier to stay in the lane of which we're comfortable. And that's why when someone goes through financial betrayal or divorce, uh it is so raw because that shift of responsibility just seems like it's something they can't take on.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it feels it feels overwhelming in the moment of like, I mean, I have to now deal with this, and I don't feel acquit.

SPEAKER_00: Acquit, right?

SPEAKER_03: And all my other areas of my life, you know, as a mom, or let's say I'm working before them, I was equipped. I could handle, like, I'm like, I can figure this out. And all of a sudden you feel like, how did I get here? How did I let this happen to me? And I'm not equipped to like write the ship. But honestly, I had no choice. Sada, you two, you gotta keep it right now. Like I've got three kids, you've got two. You gotta keep it moving forward. Right. And you gotta keep things churning and going, and you all of a sudden have to figure out for me, it was digging out of a very large hole.

SPEAKER_03: So, how does how does that look? And then my divorce didn't come for years after that. So I had to sort of plot my way out of my divorce because the financial infidelity for me was the, oh, the all this other stuff is going on. But I was not prepared financially to take my three kids and move forward because I wasn't working full-time. So I had to like interesting. I had to do the emotional, like, okay, I'm gonna put a pause on this for a quick second and get myself in a position that I now can actually financially afford to take care of my kids.

SPEAKER_03: And then so it was like kind of a twofold thing. But and you didn't tell him you were plotting to leave. I did not. It took me about two and a half years. I went back to work full-time. I, I mean, our marriage was broken and I moved out of our bedroom, you know, long before I, I think like six months before I filed for divorce. He knew we were in a bad place, but how do you trust someone after that? It was just, I mean, it was overwhelming to find out the amount, the level of debt that we're in.

SPEAKER_03: We had to file bankruptcy. Largest embarrassment of my entire life is standing out there and having to file and saying to someone, how have I allowed myself to get to this point in my life where we're bankrupt? And so we went into chapter 13. And, you know, so I'd had the I knew that when I filed for divorce, he would do what he did, which was, you know, stop paying or helping with the kids at all, which he did. Um, even though there's obviously a court order that says otherwise, but you can't force people to give you money.

SPEAKER_03: Right. So I yeah, it took so it took me a minute to get it kind of right in my ship, which is a different thing. But um, yeah, I had to plot my way back out. And now I didn't deal with money.

SPEAKER_00: So, so for your listeners, financial uh infidelity, a financial affair. Um, what Hillary is referencing is any form of secrecy that takes place around money in a relationship is defined as the financial affair. Now, I've seen the gamut of what that could mean. You know, we we giggle, you know, at our girls' night outs, oh my Amazon, you know. Yeah. I think our husbands know when there's boxes every week coming Amazon, what's going on with Amazon? Yeah. All right. So, you know, you've got that on one end, but you also then have the gentleman who gambled away his wife's full retirement.

SPEAKER_00: Um you have your scenario. Um, you also have their porn addictions that are eating um lots and lots of retirement money. And so the gamut really is wide, but it is very serious. And and what happens to, and you you uh started to touch on it, Hillary, is women feel this shame. Like, wait a minute, you know, we're great at going down rabbit holes quick. So it was like, wait a minute, how'd this happen? Right, I don't now trust him or her. I don't trust myself. Right. I don't trust where was the financial advisor in this?

SPEAKER_00: Why didn't I get a call? Where you know, I don't trust the the trust of everybody around is broken. Absolutely. Not intentionally, because probably 95% of the people around didn't know what's going on. But that's what happens to a woman is this intense amount of shame and guilt and questioning herself how did I allow myself to get to this? And that's where I'm so sorry this happened to you because it is one of those things 14 years later, you're still feeling pain from that. Uh because you had to so quickly pivot to as women do.

SPEAKER_00: Great. Like we got to get this situation taken care of. How had you pivot to care for your children? Get on the right direction. You didn't have time to heal. True. And so what probably happened is in coming to your new healthy marriage, you've had to retrain your brain as much as you can. Um, but you probably are overcompensating with control. Like I need to do everything. I'm gonna see everything that has to do with our money because I cannot allow myself to feel that pain again.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah. And my thing is got the PTSD of trusting the person. I do want to touch on this really quickly, is the PTSD of trusting someone with our money. And I'm not saying we have a lot. Like we could have like$2 to rub to carry, right? But I want to ask a question really quickly, is when you touched on, I didn't know about this because I wasn't checking the bank accounts and I wasn't handling that stuff. And for example, we didn't have a financial advisor because my husband was a financial advisor.

SPEAKER_03: But for many people in the world who maybe, you know, shouldn't everyone have a financial advisor, or whether you have money or don't, right? I mean, you always think of financial advisors I mean, you need so much money, but what what what if you only have like five thousand dollars?

SPEAKER_00: So that's the question is yeah, it's roughly it's very tricky because if you don't have money, financial advisors get paid to manage money or on an hourly basis. So um it it's really important that before you get to a place where you have the wealth to see a financial advisor that you are educating yourself.

SPEAKER_03: That is that I want to touch on that. Is that's where women, let's say, and people who are listening, if you if you're not in that category, right, you're just in the normal paycheck to paycheck, or you have a little bit left over and like you're starting to sort of say you need to know everything, right, in the family, in all the accounts, like you were saying, it's you have those monthly meetings, make sure that you're seeing all of the numbers, you're checking everything. I guess that people so for example, the financial affair in in my family was that we were using our home equity line to pay property taxes or not, right, or going to Disneyland.

SPEAKER_03: And I didn't even I wasn't even aware that it was happening. I didn't even know that we had, well, I knew we had an equity line. I didn't know we were using it. I did not know about his credit cards. He had opened up like$70,000 of credit cards, which in my world blessing, because later on, when I got us, when he stopped paying, let's say his portion of bankruptcy and we got kicked out, it went on him. It wasn't in my name. So actually, like so many silver linings in my case, yeah, I was like, I'm out of it.

SPEAKER_00: But excuse me.

SPEAKER_03: That's I guess the question is how do you in financial infidelity, how do you really make yourself aware? Are you cross-checking your spouse's like social to see like I wouldn't, I didn't know that until I pulled the credit report. Right.

SPEAKER_00: So absolutely pulling the credit report is critical. This is something that upon, say I'm sure upon your husband's passing, that was one of the steps you did upon getting, or you're headed towards a divorce, pulling your credit report. Um, I have a credit agency that all my whole, I pay for my whole family. I'm on our credit every single month. The credit is critical. That credit is keen. Um, because that really shows are you paying bills on time? What is your debt? What's going on? Um, so having a handle on your credit is a must.

SPEAKER_00: Okay. Education now is getting easier and easier for women. And I'm so thankful for that. These podcasts, um, there are so many opportunities to learn the basics about financial planning, about money management. So that's helpful. But finding a financial advisor, I want to kind of get to that because when a woman goes through financial betrayal or loses her husband or is going through a divorce, one of the first things she needs to do, I mean, after you know, the initial, I would say, month, is you need to find a financial advisor to walk this journey with you.

SPEAKER_00: Sure. Now that is very overwhelming in itself for women. Where do I start? Right. Who do I go to? What questions am I supposed to ask? Again, the shame. I'm feeling shame. I'm showing up. I don't even know what I'm supposed to be bringing. Yeah. Sure. Good financial advisors, we know that. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. But not all financial advisors are equal. So it is your job to interview until you find a financial advisor that is asking you the right questions. One of the first questions I ask when I get in with a new client is, you know, because I love numbers, give me the barometer of one to 10 where you're at, educated on finances.

SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I'll give some details like 10 where I'm at, a one, you know, you barely understand what a stock or bond is. So, you know, right out of the gate, I understand this is where you are at. Then what we need to do is it is our job as financial advisors to begin to peel back that onion and guide you through that process. Now, Hillary, your situation is so financial betrayal is very prevalent. Having a financial advisor is so common. Um, so you hit it out of the park with that. I usually do.

SPEAKER_00: I usually go big. You go big. Yeah, exactly. Not in a great way, but I go gay. So that scenario is a bit difficult because you look to your husband to be your guide. Right. And so, how do you go to another financial advisor and say my husband's a fine financial advisor and we're in a heck of a mess? And so you really your guide was your attorney because you didn't have money to walk through this scenario.

SPEAKER_03: Well, I didn't have money for an attorney either, so I walked through that scenario by myself too. So yeah, I mean my sorry must no, it's okay. Because honestly, I mean I wouldn't be aware of it today. I have the most beautiful life, so I wouldn't have this if I didn't have that. So it's you know, it was already paid for me. So no, I mean I look back on it with it, it was just a step in my story. It wasn't the thing, right? It was the thing that launched me to go thrive.

SPEAKER_02: So yeah, and you knew a lot of stuff that I needed help with, and that was really helpful, you know. I mean, I that was helpful for me because I sh, you know, she's like, okay, come on, you like go into the bank, you gotta go pay your HELOC off. Like, I needed to get that paid off in order for me to stay in my home to get rid of that with the life insurance. So that was really hard for me because it was like giving up a pretty decent sized portion of my life insurance to pay that so that I could afford security.

SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I don't want to give that away like to the I mean we owe it, of course, but I didn't want to pay it. She's like, today's the day. Like, let's go, we're gonna do that. So that for her to go through her scenario on which is what we talk about with when you go through anything, it's like you're only a few steps ahead ahead of the person who's right behind you who doesn't have a clue that you can turn around and say, Grab my hand, let's go forward. I'm gonna help you. And Hillary was able to do a lot of that for me.

SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, I was able to chat with her sister and and get and went to her lawyer, went to Hillary's lawyer to get my estate done and all of that. And she went with me. So she that's a blessing for me, even though she went through all of that crazy stuff, you know.

SPEAKER_03: Well, what's crazy though is when you say like on a scale of 10 to like one to 10, if you ask me where I am on like understanding, I'm still probably a two.

SPEAKER_02: Me too, right?

SPEAKER_03: Because I mean, I like I know what a stock is, I know what a bond is. I but like I know the names, I know stocks, I know what like we're invested in, but that's pretty much it. Like I'm a baby.

SPEAKER_00: Because so where does that mean that should translate? And I wrote about this recently somewhere. Um it's not my job to sound so smart that you have no clue what I'm talking about. Yeah. Right. So the moment that I start talking over my client's head during a meeting, sure, they tune out, they get frustrated, they feel again the shame, the blame, the anger. They leave my they leave my office feeling dissatisfied.

SPEAKER_04: Who wants that?

SPEAKER_00: Right happens over and over again. Yeah. Right. Um, in and and this is a common, common, you just nailed a common frustration that is happening with women and financial advisors. We have to speak in a language that they understand, period. Right. And um, and we have to remove any level of of shame that they may be feeling due to their circumstance, or we're not gonna get them to a place that they're in, you know, that you can move forward.

SPEAKER_03: Right. Okay, so let's pretend like I came to you originally and let's pretend like I wasn't in$170,000 a day. Right. And I you had millions. And I actually want to ask a really quick question. I want to sign R for quick second. Is let's say you mentioned like the gambling addiction and the porn addiction. How do women even know where to find that? Is that like looking at the checking accounts every month? And like, I wouldn't even know where to find he didn't have that, which was shocking because I thought there has to be something.

SPEAKER_03: There's cocaine, there has to be I remember asking you, I was like, What? Okay, is there has to be drug addiction? Like and it wasn't, it was not no, he stopped making the same kind of money because the market turned and he started using our house as a bank account. And and you know, I think being the kind of more the gambler broker was he's gonna make it all back. I think in his mind he thought, I'm gonna make it all back, she's never gonna find out, I'll get this all paid off. But you know, after years and years and years of doing this, it catches up to you.

SPEAKER_03: So where do women even look to find like he didn't have those two problems? But what if he did? Where would I have found that?

SPEAKER_00: Yes. And this is this is probably the biggest point of contention with financial affairs, is the sneakier they are. Right. Yes. The the the it is really an ugly hole to go down. Okay. Um because like some crazy, crazy stuff. Um just, you know, that's that's the ugliness of a of these affairs is they they're they're very, very um sneaky. So the reality is the monitoring your credit number one is correct. Okay, absolutely. Um number two is having access to those statements. Now we are it's so advanced, everything's online.

SPEAKER_00: I don't even get a piece of paper anymore coming to our house. You need to have logins to everything. Okay. If you have a mortgage, you want to see the mortgage. If you see on your credit report that you have a home equity line, you want the login. You want the login to all the banks, you want the login to all the 401ks. Um, and then you put a little note on your calendar and you check in monthly and log in. And during your meetings with your financial advisor, that is also where these um values should be coming up.

SPEAKER_00: They should be asking what it's it's it's this rush to only talk about portfolios where we get it wrong.

SPEAKER_04: Right. Okay.

SPEAKER_00: Women long for safety. Yes.

SPEAKER_04: Yes.

SPEAKER_00: There's nothing written about this. There aren't stats about it that I found. But this in the 30 years I've been doing it, women over and over and over again, they want safety. Safety comes in all different forms. What does safety mean to you might mean something different to you, different to say. So, what does safety mean? Yeah. And Hillary, you're in a place, you're both in a place where you are gaining more and more safety every day in your home by understanding your financial plan. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah. So once you get control of that at a healthy control level, right, then you don't stop. It's not a, you know, once you figure it out, we stop. Unfortunately, managing money and controlling your money is a lifetime sure like exercising.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, which are exactly we don't like that. We don't like that. But but honestly, I mean, I also you probably see the fun in it though. Like if you like someone like me, if I actually felt secure and I was excited to sort of see where this goes, because now I do understand the value of money. I understand how hard it is to make money, how much you have to honor it. Yes. I'm gonna say this minus my Amazon. Right. Right. You know, it does come daily, but there's things that I actually, you know, need.

SPEAKER_03: So, but that's where I do. But to watch it grow in a way that that would be, I would kind of assume for your clients, like really exciting.

SPEAKER_00: It is extreme. I actually sent an email to a client yesterday when I got their Christmas card, and it was, it was their two boys and their their four boy grandchildren. And I just wrote her and I'm like, thank you so much for Cindy. This is why I work so hard to transfer their 30 years of saving for that legacy to their children, to their grandchildren. That's very fulfilling for me. Um and I'm seeing the transformation in women. We aren't afraid, like our parents, to talk about money.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: Which is, and I'm not gonna be afraid anymore to ask the hard questions. And that's part of when I got my CFT. I'm not afraid to ask the hard questions because I would rather get someone on the right track than them continue to suffer in silence, which is what many, many, many women are doing. And it's gotta end. We have to start talking and helping each other with these scenarios. And I love women, you know, when your husband probably passed away, you were getting casseroles, the calls, the texts over and over.

SPEAKER_00: But how many people really said, Do you need help with your finances?

SPEAKER_02: Do you there were and we did have like a friend of ours um who was, you know, a financial advisor. And um, but we didn't, it was a I wasn't ready to hear that. I was definitely like, I'm now I have to do all of this by myself. Like, what are you talking about? I just lost my husband's six-figure salary, and I'm alone in my own salary. Like, I people did ask. My parents asked, I didn't want to hear it from them. Um I wasn't ready to hear. I was just and and I did keep hearing like, you don't have to do anything right today.

SPEAKER_02: Just like get you through. I mean, I could barely get through putting like my clothes on, you know. The girls would say, like, here's your sweats, like, put your sweats on. Okay, now now you're gonna put this on, and here's food. You need to eat. And um, so there were people, and I have a great um Kendra financial advisor now who is so patient with me because I still like want to put my head in the sand. But even some of the money I've made that she's put into my um high yield savings account um to like get it going because I'm not sure if I'm gonna sell my house and all of that.

SPEAKER_02: I'm like excited about it. It was like, I made like some money. That's amazing. So I am excited about the future and seeing what the money can do for me. But at the beginning, I think it was more of just a shock of like, mm-mm, I'm not gonna even talk. Like, who talks about that right now? I'm not talking about stocks and bonds and selling. I had a lot like, are you gonna have to sell your house? What are you gonna do? Where are you gonna live? Wow. So it was like a lot of um, not from like my girl, just people in general, like asking what I'm gonna do.

SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I don't even know what I'm supposed to be like eating today. So I will sorry for that. That's roughly here. Yeah. It's been a year, a little bit over a year, and I finally feel like the fog is lifting. So when you said a month earlier, when you said about a month, you need to like get going. Oh, that made my stomach drop because then I felt like, oh, I missed the boat. I should have like done something earlier. And I know that's just like it's not, it is what it is, but um, I don't know that I would have been like mentally even stable enough to like figure out what I was supposed to do with my finances because I can barely even like pay the tra like figure out I had to pay for the trash cans in the front of the yard.

SPEAKER_02: You know what I just mean?

SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, I should reframe a month is more just I kinda dealing with the stack of males Violina. Yes, and they were definitely piled. The um the no rush is so critical with Willows relative to divorces. You you you can't just sit on the sideline as much.

SPEAKER_02: But um and I still had to go through like probate and the you know, they put the notice in the paper to like credit cards. So I still had to like kind of wait and do some of those before I could really know like how much money I had left to give to my financial advisor. Um, and it's great now, but I feel like the fog is starting to lift and I'm excited for my future. But oh man, I if we had a financial advice, if we had it all together before, my money would have probably just kept going and I wouldn't have had to feel so frantic.

SPEAKER_02: But because we didn't have our estate done, I had to go through probate, like that was really what was taking a lot of like emotional toll on myself was gathering documents, going to the lawyer's office, faxing, getting our taxes done because we had an extension and we didn't, I hadn't we didn't do them last year. So then it's like penalty. It just was a lot. So I to then to then to then think about my future investments when I was trying to deal with the past stuff um was a lot. But this is what I mean.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's this is when I feel like okay, this is why you have to have your stuff in order, really.

SPEAKER_03: Right. This is exactly possible. Yes, yes, as much as you possibly can, because right, I mean, you were still trying to sometimes figure out the passwords.

SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's yeah, right. So I that's another thing. I mean, now I would do that. I have my in my safe, I would have all the things that they, you know, you learn to do is put where are your passwords? Where's your estate? Where are all the things? Because my husband had like a work computer, and then we had our home computer, and then he had his work phone, then he had his personal phone. I mean, it was like there's just so much that, and I didn't have passwords to even get into his work computer.

SPEAKER_02: So that was like, you know, we were we try we did a lot of uh investigating and trying to figure out passwords and all of that sort of stuff, just because he handled it. But again, to your point, this is exactly the reason why a monthly meeting and having your stuff in order with your spouse, and there was no not trusting at all. I was just like, You do it, thank you. Right.

SPEAKER_00: What kind of analysis? Yeah, I did create for the women that that are interested in it. It's called the uh the everything binder. And so years ago, probably it's been when I first started, I would start asking clients, do you have a safe deposit box? Do you have, does your spouse know where to get this? Um, you know, if something happened to you, do your kids know to call me?

SPEAKER_04: Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: The answers were no, no, no. Here in the headlights. I then said, That's it. I'm creating this document for my clients with everything that their spouse or kids would need if they filled it out. So great. Um, that they would need to transfer the estate. It's not a trust, it is in addition to a trust or will. Right. And this has saved many, many, many people. Now I need to upload it. I need to get it in an app. If anybody wants to help me, it's still paper form. But the the book on Amazon at least gets you in the right direction.

SPEAKER_00: Okay. Everything that you need, because think about it. We have stuff on the computer, we have stuff, we have stuff in the filing cabinet, we have stuff in the safe, safe deposit box. Like exactly even worse than it was when our my dad had everything in one filing cabinet. Right. So that will help you all save. You guys, one. Um, we're gonna link your books. I was gonna say that, yeah. I mean, what's the title name with the title of everything binder? Um, and it it's it's very helpful just to get you grounded on and to sit down with your spouse.

SPEAKER_00: It's I nag and nag and nag my clients to fill it out. Um, and it's I'll tell you, it's not fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: We're in the new year, so my financial advisor, she doesn't nag me, she's so patient with me, but she's like giving you a nudge, checking in, you know, just like it. I need just send me two things today out of Oh, she's nicer than me. Yeah, I'll nudge. I I nag the in that in that point with the book, that's gonna be great too for me because what I want, since I'm the only parent left, is I want my kids to have zero franc issues when and if something were to ever happen to me. I want them to have the book and say, Here you go, Kendra, here you go, Michelle.

SPEAKER_02: I don't know, my mom's not here. What do I do with my life? And then you say, Perfect, let's sit down, girls. Let's figure it. We're gonna, it's all here. We're good to go. Much easier, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's what we talked about. Remember, as we're doing a favorite things, which we so much fun for this year for Christmas. We're like, we need to, as women, exchange, like that's what all of our girlfriends know where this stuff is, right? Because if something happens, like you know, we're gonna go find the everything binder in our house. Yeah, and it's like they already know it's all in there so then they can help our kids and guide them with things.

SPEAKER_02: Uh we said, or um, I I think this is compliant and Michelle, or um get you know erase like some things in our phones, you know, maybe pictures we sent or a spell. What happened? Yeah, exactly. That's what your sisters are for, right?

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I don't have anything in my phone that you can't see. It's all probably buttons and Amazon, like right, yeah, fors and afters, like there's nothing in my phone. Everyone can view my phone, it's totally fine. Okay, it's funny, totally fine. I might have like you know, pictures of credit cards. Um, okay, so moving. Tell me, where do you let's go?

SPEAKER_00: I would like to talk a little bit, Killer. If you're okay talking about this, is your PTSD from the stock market? So, you know, as we all know, we can't put our money in our mattress. Inflation's gonna erode it. It's just the raw reality of it. You can't be sitting in your bank account the rest of your life unless you're Bill Gates and have trillions. So right. The stock market does have its place, its value, real estate has its place, its value. Um, so I do want to understand, and I think again, your situation was is a little more complex because you had a financial advisor husband.

SPEAKER_00: And so sure that's was even more deep with him as to what he was buying. Sure. Um, but walk me through what happens. I'd like to understand what happens to your body when we've been in a three-year great run in the stock market. Walk me through like 2022, for example, when the stock market dropped. What happens to you in volatility?

SPEAKER_03: So, what's interesting about us is I have money in my 401k. I'm not worried about it, right? Goes down, it goes up, it's the long haul. Okay. I do not have money. We're talking about honestly, we have very little in the stock market. We have money sitting in a money market because I'm too afraid to invest it. We have money in a savings account because I'm too afraid to invest it. Sean is a little bit more hesitant like I am, and we're more property-based where we can buy a property, an investment property, and we can see it.

SPEAKER_03: I'm I run, right? Shockingly, I am the manager of our two investment properties because I don't know. I'm surprised. Surprise. He's an all-home property management company. Um my tenants are amazing and they're like family. And right, it's like I've we've I've done that. Actually, I took over Sean's investment properties because when I know he had two investment properties. And then we've transitioned those, let's say, to be in the same state that we're in now. But you would not be surprised that the up and the downs of the stock market, which also means I have not my 401k has been fine, but we haven't had the big wins because my money is safely sitting in now what is what a 4% money market account.

SPEAKER_03: Like we're losing money every day. I know that. I'm aware of that. I just am so uncomfortable still. And I, you know, our financial lawyer is lovely, he's great. But do I trust him to hand over this chunk of money and like just let it fly? I don't because it literally still makes me sick to my stomach. So my 401k just feels different. Okay, that's interesting. I mean, because I'm putting money into it every month. I think I do 20% now that I'm like 56. Good. So it's not you're really, and I think I do 10% and like maybe 10 and an IRA, 10% and IRA, or sorry, the Roth IRA, and then 10% into like the different, it's in like a fund.

SPEAKER_03: Um, well, maybe I don't know.

SPEAKER_02: Right?

SPEAKER_03: You don't see it because I'm seeing your chat, it goes somewhere else. The other money going is the other money is like visible, it's real money. Like I feel like the quality is like I needed to grow, but have I missed, have we absolutely missed, and probably um I've held Sean back because of my fear 100%. Because I I just I can't get over the hurdle of like I feel like putting it somewhere that I can't control. And I get there's the ebbs and the flows, but like I feel like you know, I put money in and it just goes down, right?

SPEAKER_03: Like I might as well just buy a stock because I know it's gonna go down and we just lost ten thousand dollars. Okay. So I don't, I uh I can't get myself over that hurdle. And I don't honestly, like, that's where I need you as a financial therapist because I don't know how I know that it's silly because it's literally sitting there and it's eroding as time goes on.

SPEAKER_00: Well, it's not necessarily bad because you are you're you're saying the right things about it. If you would have told me I can't even invest in the 401k or my 401k sitting in cash, then I'd really say, Hillary, we gotta talk. But um, you know, think of everybody wants to have we want you to have a buckets. Buckets for retirement, buckets for your emergency reserves, right? Girls' college, et cetera, et cetera. If you lost your job, is your emergency reserve going to take care of you and Sean for the next six to a year?

SPEAKER_00: Yes. Um, then you want to have your real estate investments. Maybe your real estate investments are substantially more than your 401ks. As long as your financial advisor is saying that your overall plan is gonna get you from A to Z, then you're on the right track.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and he's and to tell you the truth, he's probably saying that we're not on the right track. And I hear him, and then I'm kind of like, I think he would prefer that we don't have our financial investments in property and that we move it over to the, you know, some part of it. And I I can't let's not my feels overwhelming.

SPEAKER_02: She's she would rather me um and be heavily investing in stocks and bonds and the in in that than um any kind of real estate. Because I thought about like selling my house, buying or keep renting my house, buying something else. And she definitely was not an advocate of that. Of course, she's gonna tell me I can do what I want to do, but her advice was let us not get your money into real estate, let's get it into the stock market and other bonds and things like that.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I I mean, obviously, I don't know your financial plans, so I won't speak to those. But I think the the response is, especially with you, Hillary, is understanding the stock market is going to go through its volatility. It's gonna go through its cycles. Right. Since the beginning of time, it has gone through cycles. Um and your 401k, at some point, you will retire and rely on a portion of that money for your income. Right. And that is when I see a bit of um your situation may flare up a bit more at that time because you aren't going to be contributing more to that 401k.

SPEAKER_00: And so the volatility of letting to feel more intense for you. Sure. Um, and so it would be better to address that prior to retirement. Um, but that is understanding what's going on in your 401k, understanding globally a bit what's going on to affect that, and then just understanding stock market cycles and making sure that you have enough in safety to protect you for a number of years. Right. And that's what we at our firm call the defensive barrier. Okay. What is our client's defensive barrier that when the stock market corrects, uh-huh, they look to their cash, their CDs, their treasury bills, and we count out how many years you can live on this, Susie, for 12 more years until we have to worry about the stock market not recovering because we're gonna start touching your risk assets.

SPEAKER_00: Got it. So this safety defensive barrier is really what we want women also to think about. What is your safety bucket look like? Right. How much do you need to feel safe? Because that's your underlying goal. A hundred. Once maybe your number, Hillary, is 150,000. I need that's gonna sit in money markets, CDs, and I know it's not gonna earn anything, but that's my safety bucket. Right. And there's no debate about it.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I've never looked at it like that. So honestly, like that's a brilliant conversation because it all just feels unsafe. So, like just getting my mind right with that and having that conversation of like like when you're just talking about Susie could live on for 12 years. I've never we've never sat down and looked to see like what are we in, how long could we go before something needed to change? Like I've never left it like that. And that would absolutely make me feel differently just to know where because it's like that's my whole thing about the financial infidelity is once I knew where the ground was, I was thankful because I was like, okay, I got that haul.

SPEAKER_03: Now it led me to pulling a credit report. All of a sudden I now know that we are like 170 in debt. You understand? No runway. No. And now I knew exactly where I'm like, okay, this is my starting point. I'm no longer just like, oh, right. I'm no longer head in the sand. My head has been ripped out. And now I have to like really get going on getting going. Because I was like, okay, the ground is the ground. I can now stand up. I'm gonna stand up by myself. I'm gonna take my girls with me, but at least I have a way to recover because I know where I am.

SPEAKER_03: So, but this is how I still feel about everything else. I'm like, I don't feel like I know where the ground is. And so I don't feel stable to make these decisions. So I'm just holding myself, I hold myself back. Right. Because it's easier. It's easier.

SPEAKER_00: It's a lot easier and it's your in a box of safety that you have the control over. Absolutely. Yeah. So now create in that box of safety for you, create um, create that bucket of liquidity with you and Sean. How much liquidity do I need so that I always feel that safety in the stock market can do what it's gonna do, the real estate market's gonna do what it's gonna do, but I've got my bucket. Yeah, I know it's a beautiful way of looking at it.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and for you too, Sada, right? Yeah, I like I really feel like that's a a really good like thing for it's like my brain does well hearing it like that for sure.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah. Yeah. Especially right, because you're now like minus, let's say the inca, which you were used to. Yeah. And so now it's like a whole different level of like, okay, this is my like my everyday of where I need to be. Yeah. So what are some other things, Michelle, like for people in my situation, for example, like not let's say or instantaneous thrown into grief, but like who are plotting divorce or contemplating divorce, what should they be doing? What should they be thinking?

SPEAKER_00: So the plotting for divorce, uh uh, I have a very strategic plan for them. On my website, I have a divorce checklist too. Oh wow. Um, so that will be helpful. It is very important uh for them to pull the credit report as we've talked about. Number two, um, printing or taking pictures of every statement, okay, every tax return. Um, your attorney's gonna want to see that, your financial advisor is gonna want to see that. Um it is important, no matter what, to get people around you that you trust. So interview, interview, interview until you have found the perfect financial advisor to walk that journey with you.

SPEAKER_00: Because what happens, some of the biggest mistakes I see over and over again in divorces with women is we're so quick to end the pain in the chaos that we give up assets because we want to stop. Sure. Stop the negotiation. And so women end up giving up assets because their partner, he's doing a better job negotiating. Sure.

SPEAKER_03: And that's actually funny, that actually happened with Sean. Is Sean when he is yeah, that was his first marriage, he was like, I don't want to change my kid's life, I don't want to fight about this. She she's gonna go hard because that's just who she was, which is fine. Um, but he was like, I just want the pain to stop. He's like, She keeps the house, she keeps the cars, she keeps the right the art, like the stuff. I'm gonna just exit gracefully and just go figure this out over here and heal or try and start to heal.

SPEAKER_03: But yeah, it's interesting because right, it's usually it's usually you have to have this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah. Um, and then number two, what I do see often is again going back to what a women ideally want is safety. The home is associated, correlates with safety. Absolutely. So women fight to see in a home that they raise their children in, they have the memories in, but can we afford the mortgage? Can we afford the property tax? Can we afford all the home maintenance? And so there's a lot of talking yourself into I want the home because that associates with safety. But sure, once the divorce is final, right, and all the dust settles, that home may not.

SPEAKER_00: Now, in some cases, it is. You could afford it, it makes sense, blah, blah, blah. Of course. In in some scenarios, I've seen then the home becomes this tremendous burden. Right. And it it does not represent safety. That's how I'm feeling right now.

SPEAKER_02: I'm you are. I love my home. It's uh it's too big for just one person. So I don't like it is, but I'm feeling very much like it's a lot of responsibility. The gardener, my jacuzzi broke, the refrigerator broke. My I have a TV sitting on my front porch because it broke, the smoke alarms are going off. It just feels like um, you know, the toilets, like there's a lot of like that kind of maintenance. Too much, it's too much for you to take on much for one person. Not if I lived maybe in a condo or a smaller place, but and then so at first I was very much like, I am staying in my home.

SPEAKER_02: This is where I raise my kids. It feels I do feel safe and cozy here, but what it I'm struggling with now is kind of like, I don't know if it's I'm feeling like a little bit of anger kind of happening, like that. I have to fix this. And I am, I don't have, I mean, yes, I can call plumbers and whatnot, but Chris did all be here to do that, you know. So now I am kind of feeling like it's becoming a big project that like my garage door is making a weird noise. And people are, of course, like very much like, let us come and help you.

SPEAKER_02: But is that something in the long run that is going to be affordable for me? I right, I don't think so, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00: So that is really interesting, Sada, because you now your year, the duration of time is giving you better clarity. You needed, as you said, yeah. You needed a year to build to start making peaceful decisions, well educated decisions, good financial decisions with your advisor that aren't made out of um the sadness and the loss. Yes. Absolutely. And so how can we empower you to feel good in your home again and not have that home represent represents the burden? Yeah. Right. Yeah. But that is one that is a mistake I see a lot.

SPEAKER_00: Um, but you're you're not doing it. See, you're doing it, but more in the divorce, you know, it is fighting for assets. Right. Um, because unfortunately, you're just in you're in it deep and and there's a lot of emotion running hot. And um, you know, I I really, really hopefully have been a guiding light for my female clients to take a step back and really look at these house assets just as POS. Yeah. Right. Let's not tie emotion to them. And what is the journey gonna look like post with these different POS?

SPEAKER_00: Um and that's so crazy. You and your kids are safe, you and your kids are together. That's our bottom line. How do we create a financial plan that is healthy for you?

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and that's the thing is I remember just you know, and mine was wild because it was like splitting debt, which is basically Hillary's gonna take on the debt because debt's not gonna get paid any other way. But it was because the only and he fought, like he fought hard. And it's like, what are you fighting for? It was because the only thing left is to fight about the control of the money or the house or all the it's like you're just fighting over silly things. And I think that's a brilliant way is to you have to remove that emotion.

SPEAKER_03: That's what I think I said in my one podcast that we did, where like an hour a day, I just had to like be business. It was I put my business hat on and say, I'm not gonna fight about this. It's why I got I had a lawyer for maybe like a month, and I got rid of him because I'm like, this is gonna cost me a ton of money, we're not gonna get anywhere. I'm gonna end up paying for anything any every way. So it was one of those where it was like, I need to separate how angry I am at the situation. And I was years after, I was still angry because right, it's I still we still weren't out of the hole.

SPEAKER_03: It was, but that's all you're left with is just rage and anger and emotion. Whatever he's doing, I say left, he says right. When it's like you just gotta separate it just to like just get back to peace.

SPEAKER_00: Um you said something also very critical there. When divor when a woman walks away, or even a you know, a divorce, and the man controlled the money, and the battle is taking place, you figured out hustle, and the battle is over money. That's the only control he has left. A hundred percent. And so that is where again I go back to women want to just give up because they're done with that overpowering control. Um, but he that's he will potentially continue to grab on hard because that that's the last bit of control he has.

SPEAKER_00: Sure.

SPEAKER_03: So then what do you advise women to do where they're in that situation?

SPEAKER_00: I worked with some great attorneys. Okay. Yeah. And that's where you just have to be in for I guess you're just you're in that, you're in for I will I always tell my my female clients, I will go down this journey. I go down this hole with you as far and as long as you want. Um, assuming it's reasonable in the cost we are spending to fight out, right? I will go to the ends of the earth to protect my the clients that I have. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: And then they just have to, and this is my own, this is my own personal perspective, not speaking as a certified anything in my uncertified everything, is you just have to know that it's okay to let the emotion go.

SPEAKER_04: Yes.

SPEAKER_03: Like you well, you can go do the fight and you can take it to wherever you need to take it, but you gotta not be tied up in what actually happens, right? If you can't win, it's not a loss. It's just saying, I just need to preserve my peace. Or I need to preserve my peace for my kids.

SPEAKER_04: Yes.

SPEAKER_03: Because there's only so much that we can have for emotional capability. And that's where like I had to just check myself literally every day and be like, business hat on. We're just this is now a business play.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: This is no longer, you know, the fact that our 16 year marriage is ruined and I've completely thrown my children into more chaos than they because they didn't know it by the way. The chaos, right? Now all they know is their life is completely uprooted. And mom and dad are like in a battle zone, and they you know, we had the Danville PD. I was best friends with that. Like all this crazy stuff went down. And at the end of the day, like I just needed it to be done. Yeah. Because that all had to resolve itself.

SPEAKER_03: And you know, I was right in the chucks at the end of the day anyway.

SPEAKER_00: And I know we're about to wrap up, but but you you just mentioned the children. Don't forget that somewhere in all here, this conversation is we've we our children hear everything. Everything don't get up and they're watching because we are the teachers of finance to our children. Sadly, it is not being taught um to the level it needs to be in our school systems. And so um they also will have a bit of PTSD from that. And the more that both of you can talk to them and not be afraid of um, especially I have two girls and I I want them to be financially as independent as possible.

SPEAKER_00: I have one, you know, as I mentioned, gonna be a psychologist. She could care less about money. She hates when I talk about it. She just thinks magically it's gonna be taken care of for her, but I just drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip. Stop dripping. Yeah. And there, if you have to see, you know what, mom messed up. I messed up here. Yes. This was wrong. I did the wrong thing here, and um, this is how I fixed it. Absolutely. You know, those are scenarios and teach them.

SPEAKER_03: And is there a way that we can sort of end on a really positive note of let's say you're not in these situations, right? You're in a you're in a marriage, a normal marriage, happy one day, sometimes you want to like, you know, throttle them another day. But let's say you have kids and you're raising them. Let's end on what should women who are not in this chaotic situation just do with their children and educating them as they're raising them? Like, how should we approach that with our kids?

SPEAKER_00: So I I like to look at it as kind of age sentiment. So really under 10, it's during that period of time where I um would do the three strategy. I'd give them money to save, money to spend, and money for charity, whatever charity looked like to them. But I broke that down for years. Then you get into that 10 to the high school, middle school age, where you know, then you start giving them um potentially a checkbook. Um they start making some money. It goes through the checkbook, you start talking about that.

SPEAKER_00: Okay. Um, before you launch them off to college, I wrote a book, College Poor No More. Um to help college students. Um, because then they go off to college, it's like, oh, there's a Visa I can get. There's like, wow, this is it was let's go. Um, so you know, that's when then the budget starts. Yeah. Um, and I swear I'm talking the budget left every single month. The kids' credit card shows up, they have an amount they're allowed to put on it. Okay. Go over it every single month. Well, I am going over that with them to ensure they stayed in their allowance.

SPEAKER_00: If they didn't, then we deal with that. Um, and then as you launch them into hopefully adulthood and they they get jobs with 401ks, hopefully parents can sit down with them and say, this is what 401ks are all about. These are just what a Roth is all about. I try to get Roths going even during those high school years, up to what a student, you know, they can only put what they've earned into it. But even if it's 500 bucks so that they can start saying, Oh, this is what the S P 500 does. Right. Um and then in call once they get into uh working, we want them to understand, okay, here's a 401k.

SPEAKER_00: Let's not leave the money invested in cash for the next 20 years. Here's what a diversified portfolio, you know, within your 401k could be invested in. And um, and then the starts of that discussion and saving for a house and all that good stuff.

SPEAKER_03: I love that. That is a great way to end. And I can't thank you enough. I mean, if you would be so kind to come back, there's so many other areas. There's so many other fun money topics we gotta talk about. Right. But I mean, such a great, such, I mean, great tutorial.

SPEAKER_02: And I do have one, I do have a question. If anybody wants to um well, you're gonna put all your links, your books, all the info. Um, if somebody from another state, since you're in California, we're in Idaho, um, wants to um hire you, get your pet, like, are you able to help people in other states or just in California? Yes.

SPEAKER_00: I've clients all across the nation. Fabulous. So and you can go to my website, Michelle Perry Higgins, and and um see more about me or my firm. Um yes, thank you so much for having me. Supporting and continuing just fun. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03: These are the like important conversations mixed in with the fun conversations that we have.

SPEAKER_02: Yes, so grateful. Thank you for your time. Yeah, thank you for your time. You are a wealth, no pun intended of information. We are so thankful for you. I learned so much on here. So learned so much, and we'll see you next time. Thanks so much, Michelle. Okay, bye-bye, guys.

Midlife Finances After Divorce | Starting Over & Rebuilding Wealth

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