Midlife Face Changes | Why Your Makeup Stops Working After 40 - WTF Just Happened?

SPEAKER_01: This is what the F just happened.

SPEAKER_00: The podcast approved life is messy, midlife is so wild, and laughter is definitely non-negotiable.

SPEAKER_01: To grab a cocktail or a mocktail or your favorite emotionally supportive snack, and let's get into it.

SPEAKER_00: Hello, hi you guys. Thank you for joining us today. We are so excited. Uh, the guest we have today is going to knock your socks off. So, welcome to What the F Just Happened podcast. Um, I'm Seda and Hilary's here, and our guest today is Nicole Wagner. She is a mega influencer on the internet. She has been in the beauty industry for over 20 years. She has created beautiful makeup courses for people to take and learn the easy skills of doing their own makeup. She has her own makeup line. She is a pro, uh, beautiful makeup artist and educator.

SPEAKER_00: And like I mentioned before, she developed her own product line, which we are so excited to hear about and purchase myself and use. Um, so Nicole, welcome. Thank you for being thanks for having me. I'm just gonna hand it over to you and you just let us know kind of like where you started and how did all of this evolve for you to end up where you're at today.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you. Um I first of all, I am so grateful for my career the last 20 years. Um, I discovered makeup probably when I was about like 14, 15. I was like grade nine, 10. I'm Canadian, so we say we say it by grades. You guys say fresh like January, blah, blah, blah. Right, yeah, yes. Okay. Um and so my mom used to work at Lancomb. She wasn't a makeup artist, but she worked for Landcomb. So, you know, she'd always bring the fun things home and we would fight over the little makeup things and mini mascaras because I have older sisters.

SPEAKER_03: And I just started playing with makeup. I'd always been artistic. I guess that's where it'd start. So I'd always been artistic since I was little, little. I used to draw, I drew, I always drew people. I never really drew anything else, but I always drew people. Um and then I started to play with makeup and realized it was just kind of like art on a 3D canvas. And I loved the way that it made me feel. So I was like pretty insecure as a kid and didn't feel pretty or anything like that. And so I started to play with makeup and I was like, oh, but this is fun.

SPEAKER_03: And so I would literally just like buy the old, like, you know, Vogue or whatever they were called, beauty magazines, and then I would like look through them and find like whatever famous people were in there, and then I would try to like copy their makeup. Ah, it's amazing. So I just loved it. And I had two older sisters. So by the time I was like 18, they were always asking me to do theirs and their friends. And so I would do that. Um, but never, ever considered it a job. In fact, when I was graduating high school, I was so like, I don't know what I want to do.

SPEAKER_03: I can't sit at the desk all day. Like that will just kill me slowly. And my family would be like, Well, what if you did makeup? And I was like, that is not a job. That is a hobby. And I really was like, I in my in my head, well, that's what people do who are not smart enough to go to Poland. Yeah. That's terrible, but like that's what I thought, right? But at the same time, I would always say, like, my dream job would be just to like do makeup. Like, they wouldn't, I I could work at the Mac store.

SPEAKER_03: They wouldn't even have to paint me. I would just do it because it would be fun, you know? Um, and then when my husband and I moved here from Canada, and my oldest daughter was one at the time, she's now 21. So 20 years ago. Actually, this month, 20 years ago, we moved here. And I was like, well, what am I gonna do? Steve's in school, blah, blah, blah, raising little babies. And so organically, that kind of happened. And I started to get my information out there, and I booked like 65 weddings my first nine months in Oregon.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: Right, then do weddings on the weekend and then Steve Rays with her, right? And then we eventually had another daughter. So that was kind of how I got into makeup. And I've done, I mean, this actually summer, I'm taking off two months. This will be the first summer in 20 years that I've taken off. I'm like, this is gonna be so weird. Yeah. So I just was like, I I should just do that and see and remember what it's like to have a summer without working every day. Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00: Amazing.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm excited. So, although I will probably take things last minute because I'll probably get antsy, because if I go for like two weeks without doing someone's makeup, I'm like, really need to do somebody's makeup. So um, then a couple years after that, I was turning away so much work that I ended up hiring and training girls um to do makeup. And I love wanted to train people who didn't have a lot or any experience in makeup because I wanted to teach them to do it my way so that there was like cohesiveness.

SPEAKER_03: So that when people hired us for their weddings, they weren't like, oh, I like the style of that artist or I like the style of that artist, but they knew like what they were gonna get regardless of who they had. Sure, it's right. Um, and then around 2015, I developed my own brush line because I was teaching a lot back then, and it was like the brushes that I would recommend to my clients, they were all Mac brushes, and it would be like$500 to buy these brushes. Absolutely. It's not feasible for people.

SPEAKER_03: So then I designed my own brush line and I basically designed it after like my favorite Mac brushes, but I wanted them to be affordable for people. Um, and I love my brushes, and they're one of my best sellers. Everybody who ever has them or gets them like is obsessed and loves them. I still use them. They're the main brushes that I use and have for 10 years. And then after that, it was a couple of years, and then I was I developed um some like strip lashes and kind of did that for a while, which is funny because I don't actually ever use strip lashes.

SPEAKER_03: I know I'm like, you don't have lashes on, do you? These are these are my lashes just while I'm using serum.

SPEAKER_02: We're gonna talk about that serum because I I just got it two days ago and I'm just about to bust it up and I'm so excited. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: It's crazy. Um, but I always do individual lashes on our clients. So, anyways, did that. Then I kind of ventured into like, wouldn't it be handy if I had my own like lip glosses to give to my brides at their wedding to have for touch-ups and things like that? So it just kind of like morphed into that. So then 10 years ago, so I just turned 47. When I was 36, you know, those mid-30s, my skin completely changed and I hated it. It suddenly was dull. It had all this texture. So then I went down the path of like, I need to figure out good skincare.

SPEAKER_03: So then I did that and I sold Rhode Ann and Fields because it totally changed my skin. So I did that for five years. And then two years ago I found Beauty Society. So now I do that. So really I just like love, and then I have I'm an affiliate with Borbelletta for Lash Serum. So I just kind of love all these things, but I'm pretty picky. I don't fall for like a lot of the trends. Yeah. And um, I won't just kind of like I just won't like really share anything. I I I don't know, I'm like really happy where I'm at right now, but I'm always looking for things that I like really love in.

SPEAKER_03: Like right now, I just started using that cure red light therapy mask and the microneedle system at home. I love that stuff. So yeah, that's kind of where I still have 10 brewers on my team. And we do about 150 weddings a year plus all kinds of stuff for people during the week. That's you are so busy.

SPEAKER_02: I love that you only share things that you absolutely love because then it's like so authentic. And I know I was like looking at your products and thinking, okay, I I need your brushes 100%. I need your brush, they're so good. But I love that they're numbered because it's like I especially for people like me. I mean, Sada is magical, can do her hair, her makeup shows it's gorgeous. I am like one step between my kids and it's like, you need to fix that. You need to fix that.

SPEAKER_00: You're like you're fine, but Nazor, you would be mortified if you saw two of my brushes are old Mac brushes, like 50. And they're like filthy. Oh, I mean, I do, I I am my sister used to work for Mac, so she tells me to clean my brushes, but they're so old and so like dingy, and the fibers are. I mean, they're yeah, I need a new set of brushes. Yeah, we'll be we'll be shopping the minute those feels out. Yes, absolutely. So it sounds like um like you wanted to create, like you must have seen a gap in the industry to make you want to create makeup or these specialized, you know, products without overwhelm.

SPEAKER_00: Yes for the everyday woman. Like tell us about what made you kind of decide to go in that direction.

SPEAKER_03: So just to like give you an idea, I have done makeup on like over 6,500 faces in my a lot. And I've done over 1,300 weddings in my career. So like I've worked with a lot of women, right? Like probably close to 10,000 women. And it's interesting, it's kind of funny, but it's almost like it's like cookie cutter statements. I hear women say the same things over and over. So for example, here's here's a couple different things that I would always hear. Um, gosh, I wish I knew how to do my makeup like you.

SPEAKER_03: I love makeup, but I don't know how to do it. Um, my mom didn't wear makeup when I was growing up, so I never learned how to do makeup.

SPEAKER_02: Sure.

SPEAKER_03: Um, I've been doing the same thing for 20 years. I don't really know what to do. Um, I don't know how to put eyeshadow on. Yeah. I don't know how to do eyeshadow because my lids are hooded. I go to Sephora and I get a bunch of stuff and then I get home and I'm so overwhelmed I have no idea how to use it. The girl at Nordstromer Sephora put my makeup on and it looked really good, but then I went home and tried to do it and it looked terrible. Yeah. I right, I have drawers full of stuff, but I don't know how to use it.

SPEAKER_03: I mean it was like, and it's the same, those same things over and over and over again. So I was like, what if, and then you know, doing like one-on-one cons consults with people, I would see that some they either had like two brushes and I'd be like, what do you use those for? And they'd be like, Well, this brush I use for my eyeshadow and my eyeliner and my highlighter, like my eyebrows and my and I'm like, oh boy, okay. Or they own a lot of brushes and they're all completely unused, again, except for like three brushes.

SPEAKER_03: Because I'm like, I don't know how to use them. So then I was like, well, what if I what if my brushes were like labeled to make it easy for people because they would forget, like, what wait, what brush do I use again for my crease? What brush do I use again for my counter? And so I labeled those on my brushes. Amazing. Plus, um, I finally made this like last year. Um, you can download it on my website too, but I have this like laminated guide. It's like focused. Yeah. That's amazing. Not only tells you what it's for, but then it gives you a little bit of, it gives you a little tip as well that will make it better for how to use it.

SPEAKER_03: Amazing. So I have that. Um and then the other thing is obviously like so eyeshadow is like really hard for people. And they don't know how to do it, but they also just have no idea how to pick colors. And again, this is me being like super picky. One of my pet peeves is that why is every single eyeshadow palette up out there have like a bunch of couple of random bogus colors you're never gonna touch? Yes. Like, have you noticed that? Like there's more neutral palettes now, but you know, like all of the like Anastasia, Beverly Hills, you have like all these neutrals, and then you're like, and we've got a green and a purple and a blue, and you're like, Yes, I know.

SPEAKER_02: And it's lines and I touch those. Yeah, I have the neutrals and then it's purple. And it's like there's like three on the other side. I'm like, I'll never and by the way, I am all of those clients all wrapped up into one. I dare 100% that person. You're a typical everyday woman, and that's what you guys struggle with. Yes, yeah. I'd die if he saw my brushes. She'd be like, What are you doing with our brush? But yes, okay.

SPEAKER_00: Send you my how to wash your brushes video. Oh my gosh. Well, I love I love that you have all of this. And I'm so it sounds like one of the big biggest misconceptions um that women have about makeup is we can't learn. It's too difficult. We don't know how to use our brushes. So we are gonna talk about um, I think we're what how Hillary and I usually run some of our podcasts with guests that are very professional and going to teach us things is we like to kind of go through the decades. Um so I mean, we're we can talk about, we're gonna talk about aging, like you said, your texture changed in your 30s, um, all of that good stuff.

SPEAKER_00: So um I guess let's just start with the 20s, Hill. You want to like take it away to the 20s and then kind of come back and kind of talk about like the absolute loot do's and don'ts, um, kind of like what we talked about before before we popped on here with like with eyeliner.

SPEAKER_02: Exactly. Eyeliner. Okay, so girls in their 20s, and we have a handful of them that all of our daughters are not my daughters, my nieces, all of their friends, your kids in the same group. So, what should women in their 20s actually be really prioritizing with their skincare?

SPEAKER_03: Um, sunscreen that goes for all ages, but starting early, sunscreen damage is the largest contributor to like pre-aging of your skin. That's it. So, like, and I and I say this to people all the time, I'm like, I don't care where you live. I live in the Pacific Northwest. It is cloudy and overcast and gross here, like seven months out of the year. I can't leave my house without a 50 SPF on my face and I have it for 10 years. I wish I had done that younger, but again, I didn't know, right? I am a perfect example of like I should have a ton of sun damage because I fried my face as a kid, you know, did the tanning beds, all of that.

SPEAKER_03: But you can reverse a lot of things if you start, you know, soon enough and early enough. So SPF at le not a 20, not a 25, not a 30, like a 40 to 50 minimum. Okay. Wow. And you you're getting sun damage when you're in the car. You don't think that the sun's coming through the side window, through the sunroof. Like the UVA rays are your aging rays and they make it through clouds. But really good.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I thought I always think, oh, I work from home or I just jump in the car to go to Pilates. And I do have my color science that I put on. And that has SPF in it. Okay, yeah, not regularly though, but I need to be doing that. So I and I do have sun damage that I have not been able to reverse. A lot of firing.

SPEAKER_03: So my sister struggled with that too. But again, Ronby, like, do you wear sunscreen every day? They're like, well, in the summer, and I'm like, right. How do you do that? All the time. And if you're gonna like forget, then it's better just to have a sunscreen that like that's your last step of your skincare every morning, regardless if that way you just know you're covered. You might run out at the last minute. Like, you have to be, you have to become like just it has to be a non-negotiable. So even in your 20s, like I'm always to my girls when they're going out for a run and something, I'm like, are you wearing sunscreen?

SPEAKER_03: And they're probably thinking, like, what the heck, mom? But I'm like, trust me, in 20 years from now, you're gonna thank me that I told you to wear sunscreen. So plus, what do you put on your hands?

SPEAKER_02: Like as I'm wearing 56. So I take arming out care and I rub it on the back of my hands and down. That's yeah, I was gonna say, I wish I had started. Now, granted, I didn't use sunscreen as like you. I was high, like standing beds. My calls was our schedule was around when I laid in the sun. It was not good. But yeah, my hands, I'm like, they are totally aging because I now I'm putting them on my sunscreen on regularly, but I'm 56. So the damage is there. Oh, well, you do not look 56. I thought you were the same age as me.

SPEAKER_02: Oh, well, I had a face up, girl. Yeah, I had a I had a facelift. So you did? Yes, I enjoyed it. I love looking at those transformations three months ago. And I mean, it was I'll send you, I'll send you the pictures. Oh, we're gonna be it was dramatic. I mean, it was like this was all yeah. It's pretty incredible what they can do now. It's incredible. Well, it's just amazing because I said to him, I don't know what to do. And he said, Oh, you need a deep playing facelift girlfriend. I know you are in a I'm not do I just need a net cliff.

SPEAKER_02: He's like, Oh no, no, no, no, no. You are well past that. Okay, getting back on track. Okay, so sunscreen, yeah, hydration.

SPEAKER_03: Again, remember like plump skin. I mean, that's why we always say, 'Look, people are like, I have oily skin.' We're like, that's not the worst thing because as you age, your skin is gonna wrinkle as quickly as other people, right? Dry skin, you don't want dry skin. So hydration, hyaluronic acid, really heavy moisturizers at bedtime at least. Um, and then I was gonna say eye cream. Now, I don't know if you need eye cream, say like 20, 21, 22, 20. But for sure when you start getting over that mid-20s, an eye cream.

SPEAKER_03: So one thing my mom taught me, I remember when she worked at Landcoma, she always said, like, start using eye cream before you need it. Oh, prevent, right? Because like Crows feet ate this a lot. Yeah. So like a good eye cream every night before bed, focusing on hydration and sunscreen.

SPEAKER_00: Okay, what are your thoughts really quick on the like the gold, like the little, you know, those like under-eye? They're like you pull them out of the little container. Gels and like little other tops.

SPEAKER_03: I think the whole gold thing is just a gimmick and people are like love it because it feels fancy. I don't know what the ingredients are on those. I've never used them. I don't really do under-eye patches. I do have a valetta that I like. Yeah, but yeah, I think it's kind of fun and it hydrates and stuff.

SPEAKER_02: But Ashley literally came out of my house. She's my oldest, almost 26. She came out of her house and then we're gonna go to the airport with those on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: You have got to take those off. Like you look crazy. Maybe they do just hydrate a little more.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, extra hydration under your eyes is not is never a bad thing.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but they just they do feel so they just like right now.

SPEAKER_00: I want a lower bluff. So if that's gonna I doubt that will take the place of a bluff.

SPEAKER_02: And I ask a really quick question. For women who struggle, let's say, with PCOS or like those who have skin issues, and you're saying, let's say 20s, heavy moisturizer, is there something different that people who let's say have skin problems need to do a little differently?

SPEAKER_03: Well, I mean, if you have like you kind of have to target whatever the problem is, right? So I feel like typically in your 20s, the only issues you're probably having are acne, right? Like you said. Um, as we get older with that, so then we're dealing with like sun damage, dark marks, fine lines, wrinkles, texture. Um, if someone is struggling, because I had brides in their 20s and their skin's really textured, you need to be using something that's gonna help resurface. So uh a physical product is just exfoliating regularly.

SPEAKER_03: Okay. But also like glycolic acid or salicylic acid, retinol. I don't think like my daughter's 21, she doesn't need retinol. She still struggles a little bit with acne sometimes, right? So it's like more so that kind of stuff. Okay. Um, but just finding like your favorite, you know, acne product. But again, like don't overdo it because you also don't want to like strip your moisture barrier. Right. Absolutely. That's the concern, is that there's so much stuff on TikTok and so much stuff online that it's really easy for everybody, but especially these girls when their skin is still young and they just want to try and use all of these products.

SPEAKER_03: And you don't necessarily need all those products. You don't want to be doing too much to your skin. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02: Save your money for the stuff you really do need, right? Yeah. Like traveling. Exactly. Probably, exactly. Okay, so then biggest makeup mistakes that you see in this decade, and we're talking still in the 20s. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: Um, and so when I saw that, I was like, honestly, not a lot. 20 years ago, probably, but basically. Probably like I said, my flu. Yeah. But there's so many um like TikTok reels. And I mean, I didn't grow up, I didn't have that. I had to figure it out on my own. And I feel like the trends for girls in their 20s, it's just like very natural. Yes. And so I feel like most girls do a great job. I don't think they're overwearing makeup, most of them. Um my girls hardly wear any makeup. Yeah, and I feel like they're like in a really good spot because there's so much information out there to help them learn how to do like a good job.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_02: What products or techniques do you feel are worth investing in early?

SPEAKER_03: Um, obviously sun strain and eye cream. Um, I also love vitamin C and think that like most people should be using a vitamin C. And then, like I said, as you get into like mid, like between 25 and 30, you can start looking at retinols. If you're struggling with acne, retinol can be really good for acne. And there's a lot of great products out there. I mean, I use Beauty Society, but there's like a lot of great products at Sephora now, like the ordinary and I can't even think of the other name, but um, so I think those types of things, like I always tell my brides and stuff, we send out an email after they book with kind of like some tips and things.

SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, make sure you're using a hyaluronic acid, a vitamin C, a retinol. I mean, most of our brides are around 30. Yeah. So probably like the average, maybe 28 to 32 is like the average age now. Um, and so just again, those types of things that are gonna help with resurfacing to just speed up that cell turnover. Can I ask a silly question?

SPEAKER_02: Because I just not being really in this world. When you say vitamin C, is that like actually like in a moisturizer? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: So like a vitamin C serum, the one that I use that I love and it's so inexpensive. Um, it's actually a crisp, it's crystals, like little, like um, it's not quite like a dust and it's not like a hard, hard crystal, but it's a powder. And you actually mix it in a serum and dissolve it and then vitamin C, when it's sitting in a serum, it can kind of lose its efficacy over time. So if you're using like a powder or a crystal, then it's not um that's actually more potent because it's keeping its potency until and then you're mixing it and applying it right away.

SPEAKER_03: Oh like vitamin vitamin C, but like an actual vitamin C serum or product.

SPEAKER_02: Okay, I've never heard that's I've never honestly not heard of that. That's amazing. Okay, fantastic. And then uh I think I I put this in there and you were cute. So I said, Is there anything in your twenties makeup wise you wish you had skipped?

SPEAKER_03: I don't even remember what I was doing in my twenties with my makeup. I thought that I just wish that there I had known more. Because, like I said, I just had to figure it out on my own.

SPEAKER_02: Um The fact that like you have a whole you have a whole course that someone can take to actually learn all the tips and tricks, but that would have saved me many a bad picture. Yes. My friends, how did you let me go out looking like this? Like blue, purple.

SPEAKER_02: No, we all look the same. We look like clowns. We were like early stage clowns. So yeah, we all look the same.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's what I say like with our girls. They never really had to go through like the awkward, ugly stuff.

SPEAKER_03: You didn't pull all your eyebrows out till you had none and then draw them on like a thin pencil.

SPEAKER_00: That that's why minor microbladed because my sister Minor tattooed too. I have no, I literally have no idea. I have none. She pulled, she plucked them all out working at the mat counter like in the 90s. And I was I had like they never grew back. But our kids never really have gone through the ugly stages that we had to go through with brows, makeup, 80s hair, and like aqua net and all the crazy things because when I was going through high school, flat irons didn't even exist.

SPEAKER_03: And I met a bob and my hair's naturally wavy, so it was less like a mushroom. And I'm like, do you know how much better my life would have been if there was flat the home perms? I mean, it was yeah. Oh, kids are spoiled when it comes to beauty, like they do not wax anything.

SPEAKER_00: I like a little brow wax and a little gloss and mascara goes a long way. They have beautiful brows. I know. Yeah. So I have none, but here we are. They look great. They look beautiful. From afar, from afar. Okay, so now we're moving into the 30s when we I feel like, like what you said, Nicole, like that's when you really started to kind of like notice some of the big changes. Um we're having kids, we're, you know, into our marriages, impact, lifestyle, impact, stress. Um, what, in your opinion, changes first in your 30s?

SPEAKER_03: I think it's texture and pigmentation and the hydration of our skin. I think it's those three things. And I feel like all three of mine changed at the same time. I went from having totally normal skin that I never really thought about. I used good products. Well, what I thought was good products, but they were just kind of, you know, the natural organic, no active ingredients. Okay. And that was the difference. So when I, and it was about 30, I would say it was about 34, 35, I started to be like, hmm, you know, the makeup wasn't sitting on the face anymore.

SPEAKER_03: Even my husband would thinking he's helpful, he'd be like, uh, your foundation, it doesn't look very good. And I was like, not trying to be mean, but he noticed the difference. And I was like, it's not the makeup, Steve, it's my skin. And I was like, yeah, trying to figure it out. Right. Um, but as soon as I added in vitamin C, retinol, daily exfoliation, my skin changed in like a month. Like the texture was gone. It was smooth. And I was like, oh my gosh. Oh, wow. That's when I became so passionate about skincare.

SPEAKER_03: Because it's when people are like, I can't figure out it's my makeup, makeup, makeup, makeup, makeup. And I'm like, it's not your makeup. No, you have beautiful skin, you could put it on pretty much any foundation and it's gonna look good. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00: Just go on natural and it looks amazing. Yeah. Yeah. So um, and then I guess just talking about you developing your own line, um, you know, how should foundation and concealer, like the application shift from, you know, when you're in your 20s, well, now we're in our 30s. What does that look like? Um, to apply hardly any cakey, yeah. All of this is a lot.

SPEAKER_03: This is an interesting question. And I kind of um bristle every time I see somebody online that says, if you're in your 40s, you should um never wear powder again. I have a full face of powder on. And it looks like gorgeous hydrated because my skin is good. The found the base is good. If my skin was where it was at 36, no, I would look so gross and cakey and dry and textured. So if your skin is smooth and hydrated, you can pretty much do whatever you want with your makeup, honestly. Um and I actually don't like, like if I put on a dewy skin tint, I hate the way it looks on my skin.

SPEAKER_03: I don't know why, but that to me actually makes me look like I have texture that I don't actually have. I don't love it. Some people do, and I will also say if you have more like fullness in your face, like I don't want to say fat, but like if you have more like adapted tissue in your face. You got like a fuller face, yeah. Yeah. Then dewy looks better. My face is very bony. And so that dewy, it just creates more high points of shine. And I just look shiny and weird, and I don't like it. So it really just depends on your skin.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah. But if you have dry skin, if your skin's really dry, yes, try to avoid powder or you just use it in the couple of spots, you know, that you need it. But also, I don't ever use a thick powder, like a foundation powder. I always use powders that are like almost not there. So my all-time favorite, probably nobody even knows or thinks it's a big deal. I've used it for 20 years to set people's makeup. It's the MAC blot powder. It's a class, it's like little thin compact. It's just yep, it's a little thin compact.

SPEAKER_03: It lit if you went like this and rubbed it and then tried to put it on your hand, you would see nothing.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: And it is amazing for setting makeup to lock it in without having any type of buildup. I love that powder. Did you create your own blot powder?

SPEAKER_00: No.

SPEAKER_03: Do it.

SPEAKER_00: No, I didn't even, I don't even try to compete with it. It's like so good. You know? I think I mean I had I had, yeah, I know it's like um the thin, there was like Studio Fix and that's I was gonna say, like Studio Fix, that's a foundation powder that is thick and heavy.

SPEAKER_03: And you know what I actually use those for? I have a bunch in my kit. I use those as contours. Oh, I had the darker shades. Yeah. Yes, because most when you go to find most bronzers, do you notice how like they're always orange? Yeah. So I my daughter, we read Sephora the other day, and she was like, I need a new contour powder. And I was like, Megan, look, and she kept swiping and she's like, they're all too orange. And I said, You need to just find a powder. Like, right. It doesn't have to be, you know, as a contour or a bronzer, but just find a powder that works with your skin tone.

SPEAKER_03: All right. So if you have like a really warm red-pink undertone, and get like a studio fixed powder that's like an N9, right? It's gonna be more writing that down. NW40 is like a great shade for contouring. I think I have that. I I was always wearing C3. Or like I'm very, very yellow, so I can use like a C40 or a C45 if I want.

SPEAKER_00: So really just like a couple levels up, maybe one letter over C to M. And it's like good for just using in those.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and but yes, and if you're super fair though, like when I have really fair clients and they have a slight pink undertone, then you've got to make sure that your contour is more like taupey, about an ashy taupey undertone, otherwise it's gonna look really orange on them and just not look right at all. And there are there are some good taupi ones out there.

SPEAKER_00: And so that I guess brings me to the next question of, you know, just um is the matte look is it dead? Do we always want to have highlighter kind of shiny? Like, tell us a little bit about like, you know, just always making sure we don't feel shiny. I always like bronzer. So my kids tell me I look like the Tin Man because I have too much bronzer on. Right. Because I love it. But I'm like, girls, I love it. They're like, Mom, you need to stop with the with the highlighter, like seriously. But now I'm like, is Matt out?

SPEAKER_03: Okay. I I don't think Matt is completely out, but even though my face is totally set, you can see that I look glowy. This is just a highlighter. Yeah. This is just a highlighter. And let me give you a hot tip. The best highlighter on the planet for women in their 40s and 50s is the hourglass strobe light. It's called iridescent light. Oh, and it is like the best because it's not well, this is hard and it's harsh light, but it's not glittery. It's not, it's like, and you can kind of buff it out and it literally just gives like a glut.

SPEAKER_03: So even though I set my face matte, then I just take a little bit of highlighter. I would rather, because again, I don't want to be like dewy all over. And some people love that and it looks good on them, like I said, but you have to think about things like your bone structure and like how much tissue you have on your face. So I don't think that it's completely dead. I will say for professional photos, I think matte is essential. So all of my brides, they come to me and they say, I just want a really glowy look.

SPEAKER_03: I want a glowy, dewy look. I do say to them, I say, okay, we're gonna give you glow with some powders, but we need your face to last for 12 plus hours. And you do not want to look sweaty or shiny. So we're not doing dewy on anybody. Right. We if it's for an event and they're not having professional photos, then whatever. If they want to go more dewy, that's fine. But if you're having like professional photos, set your face and then just add a little bit of a highlighter on those hide points so you don't look flat.

SPEAKER_03: Okay. But you want to like lock everything in and have it like mostly matte, if that makes sense. Yeah, it makes complete sense.

SPEAKER_00: That's yeah, all photos. Like for photos, you should just kind of go a little heavier on all the things. Um, but so what is the um what's the brand of that highlighter that you said do you want to Hourglass? Okay, that is the brand name of that. Yeah, okay. It's called Hourglass, and then it's um iridescent strobe light. Okay, yeah. Because that's just like spot on. It's gorgeous. Okay, so really rounding out the 30s, you're really still um, you know, highlighting, no pen intended, uh hydration.

SPEAKER_00: If you have a good, if you have a good foundation, things are still gonna be really great on you.

SPEAKER_03: Um you know, and um if you get if you get into your 30s and you're like, I can't wear foundation anymore because it looks terrible, please know it's not the foundation. Right.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, get get good skincare. Yeah, you want a skin. I want to definitely look at your the beauty society because um I know that you had mentioned Amy, Amy Melcur, who's been on. Yeah, I'm actually meeting with her whole team tomorrow to do some pranking. You are gonna carry it in her meds box. Yeah, I know. I think skincare gets overwhelming because there's so many brands. And it's like you just need to sort of write, like you're saying, is just get good skin. And I I basically haven't struggled with, let's say, acne, but I struggle with hyperpigmentation and frackling and which is why you need vitamin C and retinol.

SPEAKER_03: Vitamin C is it helps with pigmentation and okay, that's gonna be something I definitely rotate in.

SPEAKER_00: So yeah, for sure. So I'll hand it to you, Hill. We're gonna 40s. It creates the 40s. There's a little bit of repeating, but uh really I think it's just again about how we keep taking care of our foundation.

SPEAKER_02: So in the 40s is wild. Wild. Lots of things happened in the 40s, hopefully all positive, not for me. It was uh it's crazy. It's a rough start to the decade, but then it got better. But um, okay, so for 40s, why in your opinion does make up suddenly sit differently in this sort of age range?

SPEAKER_03: Again, so think of it this way. Think of it like obviously it's more gradual, but think about like every decade that cell turnover slows down by your 40s, it's at like 60 days. So think about so think about it's a full two months for your skin to be like turning over and have fresh skin cells. Wow. So that's imagine not washing your hair for a month, right? Like it's gonna get so if people just again with skincare, they just don't really know. Or they're like, yeah, I, you know, um, you know, I w I wash my face and put on a moisturizer.

SPEAKER_03: But again, if you're not using active ingredients, active ingredients are going to speed up that cell turnover. So that's why it's like my skin is like fresh and dewy and hydrated, is because I'm using those twice a day, every single day. Now, if I have active skin, you might not use that much, but I use vitamin C and glycolic acid every morning and I use retinol every night.

SPEAKER_00: Okay, and is retinol. Um, I I think we talked about this with Amy, but I can't remember. Retinol and tretinoin, is that like all in the same? Like, is that something like that? Yeah, that's all in the same same like family. Yes.

SPEAKER_03: However, I, for example, decided I would try um from a different med spa that I went to a couple of years ago. I thought I'm gonna try this like medical grade um 0.5% retinol.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: I used it twice. My skin was so dry, I stopped using it and it would not get better. And so for an entire week, I had to coat my face with aquafort before there was basically Vaseline to get my hydration back. Well, the one that I use for Beauty Society called All Nighter, it still has 1% retinol, but it's super gentle. I don't have any issues with it at all. And even my sensitive skin clients can use it a couple nights a week. So don't write it off completely. And you don't necessarily need something as strong as like tretinoin.

SPEAKER_02: Okay. Okay, good. You had said earlier when you were in your 30s, mid-30s and your skin like texture was sort of wonky, you exfoliated, if I heard you correctly, daily until you got kind of that back. Is that a recommendation? Because I think I exfoliate maybe once a week.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah. So you're gonna see most recommendations on exfoliating products to use one to two times a week. I used my wash that I used from Rhodan and Fields for five years. The wash that I used was an exfoliating wash. So it had like a little I was used to doing it. Okay. You can exfoliate more often if you're doing it with a super wet face. Okay. You're putting it on dry skin, it's gonna be a lot rougher, a lot more intense. And in that case, definitely once a week. But I do mine like pretty much every day or every other day.

SPEAKER_03: I'd have this one from Beauty City called Crystal Bald, and it's like volcanic rock crystals, whatever. And so, but again, I'm doing it on wet skin, so it's a lot more gentle. So I like to kind of do that gentle exfoliation daily, but you have to know your skin. If your skin is sensitive, if your skin is reaction, you know, reactive, if you've got, you know, bad acne, if you've got rose like rosacea, I wouldn't be touching it. Or eczema, things like that. But my skin, I've been using actives for 10 years, so my skin tolerates a lot and does really well with it now.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's good to know because I know that I always feel that, and I don't wear a ton of makeup, but let's say say I put a little bit of foundation on, I'll go wash it off, and then I go pat my skin, and there's still stuff there. Like I didn't get it all off.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah. It's so double cleansing is important. Right. What wash your face. So also, depending on what face wash you're using, try putting your face wash on your skin dry. Okay. That is gonna remove the makeup a lot better. So putting it on dry and working it in really good, and then add water and keep going. If I don't do that with my face wash, my makeup won't come off. Oh, that's a huge interesting tip. I've never heard that. So that tip. Yeah. Yeah, that's a cool and then rinse it all off and then honestly do it again.

SPEAKER_03: So sometimes I'll tap my face really quick with the towel that's by my shower, and then I'll just go in again. But I use a really gentle cleanser. If you're using a cleanser that's like really soapy or could be stripping your skin, you can you gotta be more careful with that. Okay. Sure, yeah, like multiple times.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely. And then maybe like you were saying, is really wet my face and do a little accelerator.

SPEAKER_03: Do it like every, you know, every other day or something. Try it. But just with your faces wet and just do it gently. And I'm not doing I'm doing it for like 15 seconds. I'm not doing it for a minute. That's stripping, exactly.

SPEAKER_02: Okay, so then for in your 40s again, I make up. What do you think? How does it change, especially talking about sort of like our lids, our fine lines happening now? What do you think the change should be there? A crepe, the crepe is happening. Yes.

SPEAKER_03: So I do crepe gorgeous. So I'm I'm fortunate. I have a very unique eye shape. I always have my beautiful deep eyelids. Um, always have, and the skin's pretty tight. I don't know that my eyelids or my skin will ever get crepey, maybe not till like my 60s. So I'm kind of lucky in that way. So people like that, like I said, I can still, I did a a video um last week where I was wearing red and I had a thick black winged liquid eyeliner on, which I say most people should not do. I can still pull that off.

SPEAKER_03: So it depends a little bit on your features. But I would say most women have a little bit of a hooded lid. They're gonna start to notice that it starts to get a little bit crepey or starts to droop. So a couple of things. Keep frosty eyeshadows off anywhere except for your lid. So make sure you're not putting frost through if you're if you're crepey, right? Because anything that you highlight is just gonna draw attention to it. Okay. The same thing if you have crow's feet. Make sure you're not getting your highlighter on the crow's feet area.

SPEAKER_03: Sure. Right. So, I mean, even with my highlighter, I don't have that, but I still kind of like to just keep my light through here where it just kind of like makes my cheeks look a little bit fuller. Um and honestly, I think so. Like most women at in this age group, when I'm doing their makeup, I'll tight line, right? So I'll do like the gel up in the in the lash roots. And then I'll use eyeshadow on top for eyeliner. So something that's soft that you can kind of bite so there's no harsh lines, there's no hard okay, so soft.

SPEAKER_04: Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03: So just like eyeshadow with an angle brush, like my E8 angle brush, super easy. And something matte. Just take like a brown, um obviously a dark brown or a dark burgundy tone is like my favorite for eyeliner. Black shadow can get a little tricky. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: Right.

SPEAKER_03: And it can smudge and then look not great. Um, but anything that's like dark, dark brown or like a dark burgundy looks really pretty. Um and stylines. Oh, and then again, like I think it's important. So when when women have like a hooded lid and it starts to droop even more, the thing that's gonna camouflage that the most is lashes. So like curling your lashes is a non-negotiable. I also think ever I do think that women should be using a lash serum. If they don't naturally have great lashes, use a lash serum.

SPEAKER_03: Curl your lashes really good because the more your lashes are curled up, if you have like a hooded lid, it's gonna camouflage that and just really open your eyes. And then using a matte eyeshadow right over that fold area where you have that hooded lid. So like right on the fold and slightly above, just a light to medium matte is gonna push that back and make your eyes look more open. But again, stay as the frostiness. You can keep frostiness in your inner corner on your eyelid, but keep it off of your, like if your lids are heavy, keep it off of your um brow bone and your crease.

SPEAKER_02: So hooded lid, and I guess that's I've always wondered this. Like, what does it actually mean? Like, is that what I have, like right here? Um, just open.

SPEAKER_03: You have a little bit. It's like it just kind of like Yeah, it kind of like it folds.

SPEAKER_02: Like, see how mine is like right here, like this right here. Yep, a little bit. Okay. Yeah, because I've always wondered like you people say, Oh, hooded lid, I'm like, I don't know what that means. Hooded lid to me, just because I'm you know not in the synustry, is like I think it's like this big like foldover. Yeah, so there's monolid area right there.

SPEAKER_03: You might be thinking of like a monolid. A monolid is where it's literally like the skin comes right down to the lash line. And there's like no creaks, no nothing. Okay, but there's so many slightly different variations of a hood iron.

SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I yeah, so I've got that. Yeah, like a little bit. Yeah, yeah. But I've talked to surgery about that. Oh, then I have it like my girlfriend Lindsay has it, had it. It was hereditary. Her dad had hooded iron, and so she had um Upper Bluff, a bluff like years ago because she was like, I it's like affecting like me work. It's like affecting my work. So that we were yeah, like a lot younger. So yeah, I mean it's it's just a feature like anything else, right?

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right. We're just right, we're all we're all born different, right? Yeah Okay, perfect. And then blush play let's talk about blush, because yeah, this is where I feel like I'm well past my forties and I've never figured this out. Like I'm looking at your face, studying, and I can see where you have it. So like where where should Abe put it? I don't care what age you are, where should you put it and then what's different maybe in your 40s? Okay.

SPEAKER_03: So um, first of all, we have contour, bronzer, highlighter, and blush that are all somewhere in this area, right? Okay. So you can contour and bronze, or you can just do one. The contour is going to basically kind of lift and highlight, right? Like under your cheekbone here. And I also have it around my forehead. Because if it's just all one shade, if it's just my foundation, it's gonna look very flat. So it's a contour is really to kind of add dimension to the face, kind of bring those natural shadows back in.

SPEAKER_03: Bronzer, if it's more shimmery, is gonna be to kind of give that like glow, like that sun-kissed glow. And that's gonna go a little higher on the cheekbone. You don't need to necessarily, if your highlighter is pretty shimmery or pretty glowy, you don't really need to use a highlighter as well. It's gonna act as like a highlighter as well. Does that make sense? Sure. And then your blush is really just to give you color and vitality. Blush is not to shape your face, like blush is not to contour. Like you have a contour, you have a bronzer, you have a highlighter, and then blush is like blush is what I say makes me look alive.

SPEAKER_03: Like without it, I look dead because my skin's very yellow undertone. I don't have any pink in my skin. So without blush, I feel like I literally look like a corpse. So blush is really just to kind of bring in um color and it can lift a little, but I tend to use like contour and highlighter and bronzer to kind of do more of that shaping. The right now, how You know, the trend is like take the blush all the way across your face, over the nose, everywhere, take it up onto your temples, take it up into your eyelid.

SPEAKER_03: Makeup is also art. Makeup is expression. If you love the way that looks, great. Do it. But again, it's just a trend, right? Like, and you know, a couple of years from now it'll be something different again. Um but I just my one thing is I think that you should be able to see your blush when you're straight on. Okay. So when your blush is starting back here and going up here, I think it's you're completely missing the point. Like blush is there to bring some color. Yeah, and it doesn't have to be a little bit more.

SPEAKER_03: Oh, like right on the screen. But like it should at least be, you know, like just sort of wrap around that cheekbone where it's starting to the front so you can see a little bit of it. Okay. While a little bit higher, or just like a little.

SPEAKER_02: Don't keep it. It's like your like the like the apple part of your cheekbone than up. Okay. Yeah. Because I mean I know some people will not be watching this and they'll just be listening to this. Uh-huh. And then I have a little sidebar question. Contour because I I think I use I mean I use contour. I don't know if I use it properly, but how do you figure out like for your skin tone what contour color you should be using? Is that darker than your, let's say, foundation or is it lighter?

SPEAKER_03: No, so contours, so contour is always gonna be darker, and anywhere you place it, it's going to basically push in or push back. So I've contoured my forehead, and what that does is it gives the illusion of pushing it back. So think about like um if you had an apple and you shine a light on the apple, you're gonna get like kind of a white hot spot, right? And then the edges are gonna naturally look darker. When you do that, you now can see that the apple is 3D, not 2D. It's giving it shape. So you can see the shadows, you know that it's going back.

SPEAKER_03: It's a three-dimensional item. So with the face, if you just put a foundation on and blush, you've kind of lost any of the depth under your cheekbones, the side of your nose, the forehead, the hairline. So that's what's kind of like doing the shape. Okay. Think about putting like um think about putting a oval cutout on your face. So like let's say you took an eight and a half by eleven piece of paper, and in the middle you cut out an oval, and then you put that on your face. Anything that's outside of that oval are the areas that you would want to contour.

SPEAKER_03: Oh, interesting. Okay. So, like, for I already have an oval. My face is kind of like oblong oval. It's like a longer oval, but so but a lot of people have like, let's say you have a really narrow forehead and a wider jaw. You're probably gonna want to do some contouring down along your jaw, but you're not gonna want to contour your forehead and make it look smaller. Okay. If you have a really big forehead, you can contour more. The cheeks, I feel like everybody can contour their cheeks. Like, yes.

SPEAKER_03: That's just kind of what gives us that like lift and that youthfulness. And then anything you highlight is going to draw forward. So think about keeping highlighter kind of like a diamond. Oh, like in your face. Yeah. So kind of like a little bit through here, right? And then, you know, down the bridge of the nose, okay.

SPEAKER_02: So over eyes, uh over eyebrows, down and then around. And then is it true? And this is my girls were laughing at me because they were watching me put contour on. I'm like, what are you doing? And so you go up, is that the trick? Like you are going away.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah. So like whenever I do my contour, I always I don't want it to come down too low and then close my forehead in the way. Like going this way. Yeah. And I'm always kind of pushing it back into my hairline. Yeah. Um, and then when you're doing contour on the side of your face, one of the mistakes that I see people make is they take their contour and they have the best intention and they think, well, I want to lift my cheek. So they take their contour and they put it under their cheekbone. But then when you go to blend it, what happens is it's gonna blend out and now it's too low.

SPEAKER_03: And so instead of like this, where it's lifting, it comes too low and it actually starts pulling down and almost like giving you jowls. Oh. That's me. So when you do your contour, think about the ear. Yeah. Where the top of your ear meets the side of your face here, and kind of just do it on the side of your cheekbone. Oh. By the time you blend it out, the bottom edge of it should land under your cheekbone.

SPEAKER_02: So then interesting. That makes sense. I'm so excited for your class, I can't even type. Everything that you're talking about, like not doing the way that is totally what I do. Because I wasn't taught properly. I didn't know anything.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah. You don't know what you don't know.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so people in your 40s now and you will have been sailing by the time you hit 56, like me. There you go. Slate bloomer. Lady bloomer. Fine, fine. Lady bloomer on so many things. Okay, what about products? What do you absolutely need at this stage when you're in your 40s?

SPEAKER_03: Um I would say, okay, well, even though I do, like I said, I like to kind of set things and make them more matte, I still use cream products. So, like um some kind of a skin tint. Again, this depends on your style. Like, I can't say every woman in their 40s should use this. Some people like to wear more makeup, some people are very natural, but I think having some kind of a skin tint, or if you like foundation, that's fine too. But something that just kind of like evens out your skin tone. Um, I love cream blush, right?

SPEAKER_03: Like a cream blush, uh, Patrick Taw's cream blushes. I love them. Um, a little bit of concealer under your eye or eye brightener because we don't want to look tired and we're probably all tired in our 40s. Hustle. Hustling. And then um, like a gloss. You can do lipstick. A gloss will typically make you look more youthful. Oh, interesting. I'm like a gloss. Like, I have like 25 glosses. Oh, it's ridiculous. And my husband's like, they're all the same color. I'm like, no, they're not. Okay, so this one's slightly warmer.

SPEAKER_02: This one's slightly cooler, it's pinker. So is it just gloss? Like you just use gloss, there's no lip liner. You could do like a lip pencil, just depending on your yeah. Depending on what sort of look you're going for. Yeah. Just make sure you blend it out. And there's so many people, like I know that some people you write during the work week, maybe you want like actual warm makeup, and then on the weekend you want just more maybe that skin tint because you're running around doing errands, but you still want to look sort of polished and folded together.

SPEAKER_03: So which again, I think like so some cream blush, like give your face some color. Right. Have a great lip gloss that you love that you can throw on, and then like, and then obviously, like I said, brightener under the eye, something to kind of like, you know, keep your eyes looking awake. And then tight lining is like my one thing that I say every single woman should learn to do. And I have my tight line bundle. I just I just made a reel on this and posted. Oh, I have a bundle. Um but just that because most women don't know how to do their liner, their eyeliner well and they struggle.

SPEAKER_03: And I'm like here to say you don't need to put eyeliner on top if you learn how to tight line and just curl your lashes and wear mascara. Like I have no eyeshadow on, I have no eyeliner on top. You have no eyeshadow? I just beautiful. I have really deep eyes. Yeah, amazing. You have gorgeous. And I have like my tight line up in here. Wow. And then just curled my lashes in my mascara.

SPEAKER_02: I can hold those are your lashes. I am so excited for the serum. I'm so excited for you. I am so I will start taking pictures weekly. I'm so it's so good. You need to do that. I know I will. And I always come back and take pictures of my makeup when I finally learn to do it.

SPEAKER_00: We will. We'll take the course, we'll do makeup, and Nicole will help us. And you'll see for Instagram. We'll see all the questions. Okay, so now we are in our 50s and beyond polish, lift, and confidence, which most of our women that we talk to, this is where we have, I mean, even our 40s, tons of confidence. You were kind of like, don't give too much what people think you don't want to look young and beautiful. Um, uh, I guess how do you create lift? Because it feels like the trends are like not a lot of makeup anymore, right?

SPEAKER_00: It feels like nobody's wearing, I mean, unless we're like you said, um, weddings, big events. Um, how do you create um that lift without piling on the products as you get into your 50s and 60s?

SPEAKER_03: So I think it's very similar, honestly, to like your 40s, but I I do think as we get older, less is more. Um, and I think we start to embrace like our ourselves a lot more. Like you said, like we just don't care as much anymore. I think hopefully for most of us, we love ourselves more. Yeah. We've kind of accepted our imperfections and our weaknesses, and you know, we're focused on just kind of trying to better ourselves. And I think when it comes to makeup, when you're more confident, I think you need less makeup.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah. True. Um, like when I was younger, I just thought I am, I don't look pretty without makeup. I thought I have to have makeup on to look pretty. And now I can wear no makeup. And literally, it's only been in the last like 10 years, maybe five, where I'm like, oh, I can look in the mirror with no makeup and think that I look pretty. I went my whole life not thinking that. But I think that comes with like age and confidence and experience. Right. And so, like in your 50s, again, I think it's just about like keep it simple.

SPEAKER_03: Take care of your skin. The better your skin is, the less you have to put on it. And I would say most women in their 50s, if they could get away without having to put any type of foundation on, they're just um. I still think concealer. I feel like we're all gonna probably need concealer or under eye brightener until we're dead. Um, so I but if your skin's really good, you can't just throw on a cream blush, maybe a little bit of a cream contour, some under-eye highlighter, and then again, focus on lashes.

SPEAKER_03: Like those types of things keep you youthful. When you start putting on really heavy eyeliner, it's going to age you. When you start putting on frosty eyeshadow, it's going to age you. And just keeping things like simple, just think light and bright, right?

SPEAKER_02: So Does Beauty Society have, I know we're in the Pac Northwest too, and I'm just, I am so dry right now. It's we're in the middle of January. My skin is so, even though I, you know, I've got adequate products, I will be switching. So I'll have great products soon. But is there something else I need to be putting on to sort of put some hydration back into? Because I'm gonna drink a ton of water, so that's not the issue. But I don't like right now, I just feel like I'm so besides my face left. It's just so tight.

SPEAKER_02: So tight and dry. And dry, just so dry. Yeah, so dry.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah. Um, some people see really amazing results with our infuse, which is a biofermented internal hyaluronic acid drink. It has a very, very, very slight flavor. Yeah, and we didn't create that technology, but we're one of very few that's using it in the US. Wow. So a lot of people say like they'd actually notice a difference with their joints, with their cracking hands in the winter. So that's good to have that extra hydration from the inside. That's great. Um, but again, it's like hyaluronic acid.

SPEAKER_03: Okay, um, even things like you kind of have to, we have to look at like what you're using and you kind of have to like make a full shift, like even down to cleanser, like this is a a really creamy, gentle cleanser, nothing that's gonna strip, right? So just add in like a super heavy moisturizer at night. Um just kind of like so it's not really one thing. There isn't like it's one. There's never a one product fix-all. If anyone ever tries to tell right, sell you something where they're like, this will fix everything.

SPEAKER_03: Right. That's a red flag.

SPEAKER_02: That's the main thing. It's like I can go on, I can look at their products, and then is there like And I'll help you. I have like a list of questions I'll ask you and we'll kind of figure out. Yeah, because it's like, I mean, right, I'm in my right now, it's like I want to put my face back. So now I want to like keep it there. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Not and not feel like I'm about to like crack open. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like if I touch myself, it's gonna like burst open because it's so dry.

SPEAKER_03: And I always say, as a professional artist, people think like acne is the hardest thing to deal with when I'm doing someone's makeup. The hardest thing to deal with is dry skin.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah. Okay, it makes sense because it's right, it's like it's not absorbing.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah. And it sits on the skin and then it looks more textured, and that's like really hard to deal with.

SPEAKER_00: And you can't fix it overnight. You have to like work on it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I want to talk about something that I like really love and I think it makes such a difference. Like, talk to us about brows being an unsung hero. And I feel like that they really are because when I think about my mom in her 70s, if she and she doesn't wear a ton of makeup, when she puts her brows on and a little bit of um mascara and gloss, like she looks rape if she if the brows are on point. Yeah. Does she have light or her are they normally blonde?

SPEAKER_00: She does have microbladed brows, but they're super faded. Um and they which of course when you get them done like at first are so great. But like, and yeah, and her hair is like a little bit of gray, so I'm I want her to like so it looks lighter. Yeah, they've gotten lighter, but when she does fill them in and you know, brows to me just like can make a face.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they can definitely make or break it. So I kind of or break. Or break, yeah. Yeah. I used to compare it to pe for people like this. Like, think about if you have a photo and you put it in a black frame, just like that. That's the photo. If you take that same photo and you put a white mat around it and then put it in the black frame, that photo looks so much better. I mean, it literally looks like a better photo. It's the exact same photo. So our eyebrows frame our eyes. Right. Right. So, like, I mean, if I took my eyebrows off, like I would look so weird, right?

SPEAKER_03: Like if we didn't have them. So they really kind of frame the eyes, so they are important. But I think that as long as like I think the definition is more important than even like necessarily like the color. And what I mean by that is messy brows don't look good. Like, make sure you're waxing. If you have a lot of brows, make sure you're doing like a regular wax. If you're not tweezing them yourself, like go to somebody. That's like like you said, brows make a big difference. So invest in going for a monthly wax just to keep the shape nice and clean.

SPEAKER_03: When your brow bone is clean, again, that's going to lift and open your eyes more, which is going to make you look more useful. Um, now that being said, there's a lot of women that just lose their brows as they get into their 50s and 60s. I am the hugest proponent of powdered tattoo brows, not microblading. Oh, yeah, okay. And the whole reason I'm not for microblading is because it fades pretty quickly. So you have to do it over and over again. Yeah. And if they're using a blade to do it, you can scar the skin.

SPEAKER_03: I also have never really seen someone with microblading where the color doesn't fade weird, like a pink or a gray or a green. That's me. Oh, really? So I fill them in every day. Yeah. So I will screen from the rooftops. Her name is Jane King. You can find her on Instagram. It's J E I N. Okay, so it's not like it's not like regular Jane. People want to say Jane, but it's Jane King. J-E-I-N. She was a makeup artist for Powder Inc. for three years. She's incredible. We used to always joke that one of us needed to learn how to like go into like tattoo brows so we could like fix people's brows.

SPEAKER_03: She has been doing it now for, gosh, I don't know, eight or nine years. She even owns a school. So now she has a school in Selwood, right here in Portugal. Wow. If you once you guys go to her Instagram, you're gonna be like, what the world? We're gonna have to take a trip. Her color theory is incredible. Really? They and they literally look like you took a soft, soft shadow and filled your brows, and they're perfectly symmetrical. Like she is a perfectionist. I have sent so many women to her and they're always afraid and they always come back and go, Oh my gosh, that was the best thing ever did.

SPEAKER_03: It was the best thing that I ever did. I have no eyebrows. I literally only grow hair from like here to here. Yeah. Because my natural brow grows so low. Right. And I tweezed it all out when I in the 90s. Yeah. And so even if I tried to grow back in my brow hair, it literally only grows here.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: So I had her do mine and yeah, you your brows look great.

SPEAKER_00: And I thought I'd ever done like 25, I'm not kidding, 25 years ago when microblading first there was no powder brow. Now they're at so many like new, but yes, I am.

SPEAKER_03: So I find myself telling even like a lot of our clients or Mother of the Brides or Grums, where they're like, I have no brows, I don't know what to do. The older you get, the harder it is to draw them on, and then they're constantly done. Yes, and I tell people all the time, like, go see Jane. I don't care if you have to fly from out of state. Maybe there's maybe there's more artists now that are doing that powder technique, but not microblading. Okay. It's called a powder tattoo, not any affiliation with my company's name.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but a powder tattoo. And like, I'm just like, you'll wake up every day and your eyebrows. Imagine waking up every day and your eyebrows are perfectly symmetrical and soft filled, and they literally look perfect. The best. That's a game changer for women. The best.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah. We need to take a road trip, Seda. I know. I mean, I do. There it my girlfriend um Ashlyn here, she's she it has a company called Bang Bang Brows here in Boise, and she does beautiful powder brows. Um so what she told me was, I can do your brows, but you need to go get what's underneath removed before we can like start over again. Because send a picture and talk to Jane.

SPEAKER_03: Because I know she for years she wouldn't do it for people if they already had that. But now I don't know if it's just based on her knowledge and her experience, but now she will with some people.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm gonna talk because she said like the saturation of me having it done so many times for over 25 years that I need to like get that ink like out of there. Um, and then I know I can I can talk to Jane and or you know, Ashlyn um and say, okay, I want to be like, I want these redone so I can wake up with them and not have to go in. So yeah, so I I'm a proponent absolutely um of of brows. And uh we I know we already covered like the biggest confidence shift we see in this age group. We said clearly we think stop caring so much.

SPEAKER_00: I mean, we care more, like we care about our vessels and our bodies, but do we care what other people think?

SPEAKER_02: No, I would never have gone out of the house without makeup. My mom is one of those, right, where you have you have to have your lipstick on, right? You don't leave the house without lipstick. My mom still to this day is meticulous, like stunning, always done, looks gorgeous. And I'm like, I normally look like I have rolled out of bed, I barely dressed brush my hair, and I catch myself at the end of the day going, oh my God, like I actually walk around all day looking like this. I look terrible.

SPEAKER_03: It's a lot of hardcore. Well, it's not just you because I'm a professional and I have the ability to make myself look really great every day, and I don't. I mean, you're lucky if I put mascara on. Yeah. But again, again, because my skin, I've taken because I'm confident in my skin and my life need to. Yeah. So that's the other thing I will say with confidence is that when I just and I don't say this because I sell skincare, but honestly, just from my experience, I can't believe how much good skin affects your confidence in a positive way.

SPEAKER_02: Absolutely. Absolutely. If you wake up and you look and I I haven't achieved this yet, my skin is fine. But I can imagine waking up every day and having glowy, gorgeous skin as my base.

unknown: Right.

SPEAKER_02: It feels like my brows on, slap, right, use my serum so my lashes look longer. Yeah, because I had my false lashes for years and then took them off and they've destroyed my lashes underneath. They've grown back a little bit, but they're still baby lashes. Yeah. So that will just mean those will be just a game changer. So we'll flops and we're done. Yeah. It really does. I look forward to that day. I'm excited to talk to you.

SPEAKER_00: Okay. Now we're gonna do this. I like a love segments like this because that's I've seen a lot of the um, you know, the memes of interviewing doctors and things like that. So I love that we have Nicole here to ask these like rapid fire um makeup myths and hot takes. So Hill, I'll let you, I'll let you do that.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I'll say, well, some of them we already covered, like for example, like the dewy skin, you know, yes or no. And I think your answer was depends.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think on most people it looks great and it comes down to a preference. But again, it's like if you have dry skin, like really dry skin, then yes, stay with it dewy. Don't don't do something that's gonna make it look more dry.

SPEAKER_02: Okay, so I need to get back in the dewy. I need to do dewy right now because your skin's dry, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: Just avoid powder. And then the contour overrated after 40. No, I think contour is an amazing thing for shaping your face and lifting it.

SPEAKER_02: And then really quickly, I know we talked about this is not harder rocket fire question, but this the eye brightener you're saying, is that just like a little powder that goes like right in, like sort of right?

SPEAKER_03: It's usually a cream or a liquid. Like my daughter loves the rare beauty one. It's okay. It's like brightener, it's not even a concealer, and she doesn't have to wear a concealer, she just takes like the brightener. And I would usually more of like a peachy or pinky tone to try to conceal any like blues or purples under the eyes. That's neat. And it just goes kind of like right at the very sort of top with the nose.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just kind of like where you're the darkest, like under here. Love that. Okay, lashes, are they still a thing?

SPEAKER_03: Well, yours are. Yeah. And like I said, I I didn't know and real. I think that we're gonna slowly over the next five years fade out even more and more from lash extensions. And again, just going with like natural lashes. I mean, we kind of joke, right? We're all like we're high maintenance to try to look as natural as possible, right? So yeah. But I think that like more people are gonna stop doing the really heavy, thick lash extensions.

SPEAKER_02: I mean, mine has never recovered. I did them for years and like I didn't find Yeah, they're very good on your lashes. Four years ago, and they are stiff button better, but they'll never go back. Never had long lashes, like I have about how long will that take me?

SPEAKER_03: About what, six months? I noticed within three weeks I noticed a difference, but then they literally kept going until like 15 weeks. They just kept getting better and better and better.

SPEAKER_02: But yeah, so that's that's a good maybe thing for lashes to sort of the extensions to go away.

SPEAKER_00: And there's some people um have become allergic to lashes. Like I became I couldn't even wear them anymore. Yeah. So I mean we can wear falsies like I do little like um clusters. Yeah. But um I think that's a thing with me. Like with the lash serum, I can grow my lashes really long. I just like the fullness of that's but so I'll wear them like you know, when I'm mascara, right?

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and like those little, you can get those little clusters that are like on a mini band and it's like three little individuals on the and you can just pop a couple on, like that's easy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: So yeah, kind of that's what you did for me when we did the the um when we did our photo short, yes. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so one trend you wish would already be done. The blush on the temples.

SPEAKER_03: Oh, just stop. Like when it's like literally like up around here, I'm like, can we just stop? Oh, I don't think that's that. Oh, it's like, oh yeah, it's like taking the blush all the way up here, like literally almost wrapping it onto your eyelid, and I'm like, Oh. Oh, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02: And this is that was that sort of that new trend you're talking about, just crossed your whole like sort of face.

SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah, or or people you'll see the tutorials and they just basically take it like this. They'll take their cream blush and just go all the way across your face.

SPEAKER_02: Just make a wave over your nose and onto the other side. Okay, so let's not do that. Yeah, I haven't that I also don't watch different. Just look like your sunburnt. Yeah, exactly. I can do that. I can do that naturally. So I one one trend you secretly love. I love the fake freckles.

SPEAKER_03: I love that you love these because I want to try them. I mean, I would never tattoo them on, but I have like a couple of little freckle pins that I've done once in a while, and they're just so fun and cute. I want to know. Where do you put them?

unknown: Like here.

SPEAKER_02: Like where you're natural on it in your nose. Yeah, my whole face is natural freckles, so I don't need the fake freckles. I need less. I need to face them. So you just go like from here just through makeup.

SPEAKER_03: Like, do like I would like do my whole makeup and then I would like pop them on so then they're like really like specific. You go over the nose at all, or no? But they're yeah, like over the nose or just kind of randomly. I love that. I'm gonna try that.

SPEAKER_03: People are like, why would you do that? And I'm like, because it looks cute and we like it. And again, it's just fun. It's fun and it's you know, creative. That is fantastic.

SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, go. No, I was just gonna say, like, that is um, I those are my favorite little like segments of um like a little interview. I just love that. Like rapid fire little, like give us the the the tidbits at the end that are going to take us through the rest of our decades and and things that we can, you know, things that we can remember. Um, like Amy's was when we had Amy on, it was like, what was one thing that you if you could give to anyone that costs the least amount of money that you would say everyone needs, and you had said a Nicole aqui, like aquifer, like she goes, everyone needs aquaphore for any like any kind of dryness, whatever.

SPEAKER_00: If you can afford one thing, it's aquapore. And we're like, oh, okay, you're like three dollars.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah. If your skin actually, that is a good point too, Hillary. With how dry your skin is right now, it honestly to me, like I was like, this feels gross, but it was the only way I got the hydration because it will completely create a mask. So if you put a thin layer of that on your face every night, like do all your skincare and then literally finish with that. I will do that.

SPEAKER_02: Okay, that's good. I have it, but I was doing it kind of in the areas that she had said. Yeah. So I will now give myself a little light coating everywhere. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yes. Okay, well, we are so grateful to have you are makeup.

SPEAKER_02: We will link all your courses, the I mean, after this, I definitely need your palettes. I definitely need your brushes.

SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna go over and my everything on my website right now actually is 40% off, and my brushes are 50% off, which I'm never done.

SPEAKER_00: Okay, so how do we get well yeah, tell us your website and your Instagram here so that people are listening and they're in the car and they don't have a pen or whatever, and then I'm gonna link everything below. And um, you know, we're we're just yeah, so grateful to have you on and you're such a wealth of knowledge for all of our age, you know, brackets. And, you know, it was wonderful to meet you. So fire away as your ending. Tell us where we can find you and all of that.

SPEAKER_03: Um, so I tried to keep it easy. So the website that has like all my products and my brushes is just triple W. It's Nicole Wagner.com. And my Instagram is also it's underscore Nicole Wagner. So NicoleWagner.com and yeah, from there it'll link other things. Like it'll take you to my wedding makeup site if you're like to look at before and afters and stuff. We'll take you there. And then my beauty society website. Again, people can also just find me on social and message me and I'll help one. But it's perfect beauty society.com forward slash Nicole Wagner.

SPEAKER_03: Okay, perfect. That's what that's what I was gonna ask you. So I'll message. And then I have a link for Borbelletta Lash Serum as well with the discount, so people can just message me for that. You have like a link tree, like something on there.

SPEAKER_00: Yes, it's all in my it's all in my link tree on my Instagram, which again is it's underscore Nicole Wagner. It's underscore Nicole Wagner. And your course is on there as well, I assume. Yep. Okay, awesome.

SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much. This was such welcome. Well, acknowledging that you know what? We'll have to do like an update and I'll come back and have my makeup look.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that would be so fun. We should do that. Okay, Nicole, have a beautiful, beautiful rest of your January. We are so thankful to have you here. It was wonderful to meet you. Thanks for working on. And I'm sure you're gonna have a ton of new faces that are gonna follow you and ask all the MPs. I love to help anybody who has questions or needs help.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love it. Well, right here, right here. I'll message you after this, Hillary. Yes, we have lots of needs. Thank you. Okay, ladies, have a great night. Okay, bye. Bye.

Midlife Face Changes | Why Your Makeup Stops Working After 40

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