Midlife Grief & Widowhood | Why Year 2 After Losing a Spouse Is Harder - WTF Just Happened?

SPEAKER_03: Hello everyone, it's Hillary. Welcome back to What the F Just Happened. Today we have a very special episode. It is a follow-up to kind of your story about what happened with your beloved husband, Chris. And we are going to talk about year two. You are 18 months in almost to losing Chris suddenly. And you kind of gave us that beautiful recap of what happened, and you were so honest and authentic and heartbreaking. That story was heartbreaking of losing him and sort of the time after. And now we're 18 months in.

SPEAKER_03: And I certainly don't know a lot of people who talk about grief in year two and what it looks like. And that's what we're that's what we're going to kind of cover tonight. So it's sort of about when the support fades, but the loss doesn't, because you are still very much in it and maybe even more real now in year two than it was in that immediate aftermath where shock was still playing a part. So that so that is that is what we're going to be kind of diving into tonight. So I will kind of open up the floor to you, and then I have lots of questions.

SPEAKER_03: Okay.

SPEAKER_01: So yeah, we just want to make this episode because I I think that most people believe that when you go into year two, it's getting better and it's getting easier and you're moving on with your life when really other people are moving on with their lives and society kind of tells you that you should move on with your life and you kind of have to move on because you have bills to pay and kids to take care of and all of that. Um so yeah, if you don't know my story, you can listen to episode is it episode two?

SPEAKER_03: I think it's actually episode two. Okay, I think it's episode two. Season one, episode two. Season one, episode two. We've been on the the era a very long time. We are in season two, episode. I think this will be like episode 10. Yeah. For season two. So we're doing good.

SPEAKER_01: We're doing good. Hell enough. Um, so yeah, my my story, uh um, season one, episode two, that is the stor. That is the episode I tell the story of my husband's passing and um our life story and all of that.

SPEAKER_03: So now I am 18 months in and maybe just do a quick little recap if someone's just coming of what happened.

SPEAKER_01: Yes. Okay, so my uh was Chris, Chris and I knew each other since we were 14 years old. Um we were married 23 years, together 26 and a half years, um, went to rival high schools, knew each other in our same city, grew up together. We have two girls, um uh uh 25 and 20. When we uh Chris and I went on a trip to Hawaii um November of 2024. And um he suddenly on the last day of our of our vacation, he had a sudden brain aneurysm in our room and passed away very quickly. So brought our whole family over, all of our friends over to say goodbye to him.

SPEAKER_01: And um yeah, here I am on month 18. And blessed three other people as an hour and donor. Yeah, if my husband was an organ donor. Um he's still people are out there. Yeah, and I don't even I haven't shared this yet, but um, you know, we you really hope to hear from the recipients who receive um, you know, part of the donors, you know, whatever part of their body that you receive, and a lot of people don't hear from the recipients because they have survivor skills and some other things. Um but we did.

SPEAKER_01: We were we recently heard from um a beautiful man named Michael, who oddly enough, Chris's middle name is Michael. And um yeah, amazing. So he got my husband's liver, and on his 65th birthday, he woke up to a new liver and is has been married. I think he was married, I have the letter, but 30, 30 something years, has three grandkids, lives on kawaii, is just so um was so grateful. So we have started the process of writing back and forth.

SPEAKER_03: Oh, you knew that wrap I didn't know that. Yeah. Oh, I love that. Okay, we'll have to dive into that. Yeah, we'll have to do a that's maybe a I did not know that.

SPEAKER_01: That's incredible. Okay, that makes me happy. So that's um, you know, although we haven't heard from any of the kidney recipients or any of his other recipients, um, it was it feels special. Especially Chris and I went on our heading win in Kawaii. Oh um, Hawaii is very special to us. We went, you know, we tried to go every couple of years. Um, Chris's family loves Hawaii. Um, so Kawaii, Kawaii is very special, but um Maui we love and so is a Wahu, which is where we passed away. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03: I did not know that. Yeah, yeah. And we talk every day. I know it's a beautiful part to that story. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so year one, right. Year one is survival, and year two is your reality is set in.

SPEAKER_01: Yes, year one is foggy, no brain, you can't think. I was stuttering, um, I was living in this absolute, complete, alternate reality. And then year two, which I assumed year two would be easier. Um, but the more widows I've spoken to, oddly enough, most of them, not all of them, say that um year two is harder in a sense. Um, so harder in the sense that the fog is really starting to kind of float away, and you really realize they're not coming home. I remember the whole first year I was like, my brain was telling me, and now actually that's kind of changed.

SPEAKER_01: My brain was telling me he's on a long vacation, he's on a long fishing trip, he's working late, he's at a chamber event, or maybe I would go to bed early, you know.

SPEAKER_03: And like you're waiting for him to come home.

SPEAKER_01: Um, just like it. My brain was telling me that all these scenarios that had happened prior were still happening. So if I went to bed, I was like, oh, I'm just going to bed early. Right. And he's at an event in Boise for his company, and he'll be home later. And then when I wake up in the morning, it was like, oh, well, he went to work early. Right. So I just missed him. Missed him, right? Yeah, I just missed him, but I'll late. But I'll see him later. And then it was like your brain tells you a lie again the next night.

SPEAKER_03: Like, you know. And his car is still in the garage. Yeah. His clothes are still in the closet. Yeah. I mean, his clothes are still in the closet. Oh, they still are, but like I can see how it's like.

SPEAKER_01: Well, it your brain protects you, absolutely. Um, so yeah, all of Chris's stuff is still exactly how it was when he passed, and it's it's 18 months later. And um I it it's definitely one of those things where yeah, reality setting in, like, okay, um, he really isn't coming back. You have more and more days of reality, of realizing uh that you don't have your partner and he isn't really coming back. So a lot of those thoughts that I had the first year about missing him at night or he was on a fishing trip for a long time are definitely like fate.

SPEAKER_01: They're like definitely almost faded. Okay. Yeah. So now everything, yeah. Your brain's my brain's definitely releasing some real information uh of stepping into reality. And that reality is uh yeah, that he's truly not coming back. And um, you know, finances are setting in, the fact that you're the only parent is settling in. Um you want to grieve, but you also need to be there for your kids, and then they have all the same things that they still would have had when if Riz was here, you know, new careers, or they're moving, or you know, um things they want to talk about, or they're struggling with something, or they're grieving and then they're they have their own grieving.

SPEAKER_01: Right. So yeah, it's it's just definitely a um a different process. I think that I'm not I was telling Hillary earlier, just felt like the grief kind of sits in your brain. If you're at let's just say we're all at dinner together, you know, I told her that if if we're all at dinner together, you just get these like weird flashes in your mind of like what happens for me is I get these weird flashes in my mind of uh Chris laying on the hospital bed on the ventilator, and it just like it's an instant flash of like the the room, like the ICU room.

SPEAKER_01: And then it's like, okay, then it goes away and I'm back to eating dinner with the girls, and then it's like a flash of um maybe being at the beach and uh on Oahu and and like watching his lay float out to sea, and then it's like okay, then I'm back to eating dinner and drinking a blast of wine. It like interrupts your brain, not enough to have like a breakdown or cry, but it's like that's just how your brain works. Your brain's processing it. Yeah, it just flashes, like these flashes of or like my life of all maybe all of us at Disneyland, or you know, um, it's just how it is.

SPEAKER_01: It's very those are probably pretty new for me, those types of flashes, I would say.

SPEAKER_03: Um are you getting on like those Facebook? I mean, I get them all the time, so you must get them because you have so many memories and so many pictures and everything, yes, and like every day are you getting those like five years ago today and then three years ago today. Yeah, it's all the reminders of all yeah, that is that's because you can't put a new memory in. Right. Yeah, it's oh you can't. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: So we I went to uh a country music festival, Stagecoach, with um last weekend. We are in May shocking of 2026. Shocking, shocking. Uh, and ten years ago to the weekend, I was at Stagecoach with Chris. Um, so it popped up on my Facebook because I had a picture on there and it was of him and I at this country music festival with like a little banner that said Stagecoach. I'm not even sure where we took it. And then it's it said, like, yeah, do you want to put a new picture in? Like an update? Yeah, so it's like then and now.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, then and now. And I was like, Well, yeah, there is no now. So thanks, Facebook.

SPEAKER_03: And in those moments, you have a call off Facebook, yeah. Meta, right? Yeah. It's no meta. Um, in those moments and guys, you just kind of like have that moment and keep going, or is that a moment of where like it really like goes to the core of like your nervous system?

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I don't know that it went to the core of my nervous system. I think what I in my mind I'm thinking, well, that sucks. I don't have any memories right now. And all the memories of of Chris and my phone are from November 2024 and past. So I don't have any new memories. So that sucks. But what I do feel like I try to tell myself, and I did, was well, I was going with my daughter and I was going with my sister and my brother-in-law. And um those would be, you know, new memories, you know, that I was going to make.

SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think that's a weird part of grief when your phone stops the day that they pass. You have nothing left in your phone for and you know, past that date, which is a very strange feeling. Yeah. That's I and I have to like scroll really far, like a year and a half now. Right.

SPEAKER_03: To go back to all those to go back when he was alive. Right. Which I mean is a blink of an eye, is 18 months. But it's a long period of time. I mean it's five years flat.

SPEAKER_01: What did I say? I think it's five hundred and thirty-four days now. I know. And then that doesn't seem like a lot, but then that is I it's got it's like that twofold of the days are right, the days are long and the years are short.

SPEAKER_03: Wait, because probably years are short. I don't know. I feel like it just happened. Yeah. Yeah. But then there's also a lot of life that's been lived since then. So I guess that's like for the year two for you. Yeah. Besides, I mean, there's so many parts of it that have got to feel overwhelming and hard. But is there one that sort of stands out as like the biggest eye opener in year two for you so far?

SPEAKER_01: I think for me, the eye opener is what I always talk like in our group about, which is like it's not that I I don't want to say like I don't give a shit about anything, but I kind of don't give a shit about anything. Like I truly do not. Like when you truly lose someone that you are like maybe a parent, maybe a child, maybe a spouse, you don't give a flying fuck about so much stuff. Right. Whether it's politics, whether it's a, you know, uh like a scratch on your car, whether it's, you know, anything to me now seems so trivial.

SPEAKER_01: Sure. And I don't have the bandwidth for it, really, like very small talk. Um, things are just so small and insignificant now. And I will say that in year two, I still feel very much the same that my brain is uh very small in capacity to be able to like plan a lot and do a lot. Um it just doesn't have like the capacity, and I think that's where the I don't give a fuck comes in because you don't have the capacity to have like nonsensical conversations or um like we had some work stuff happen recently at my company, and it was like it's not that I don't care, it's just like this is not it.

SPEAKER_03: Like well, you were you were this is a such a traumatic event. Yes in life what you mean it's going one way and it completely shifts to another way. The rest of the stuff is mundane compared to that. Yes. So right, there's and you know.

SPEAKER_01: I mean, do I catch myself still, you know, or do I catch myself uh let's just say like being upset about something maybe small or feeling crabby? Yes, but I try to like just roll with it for a couple of days and I, you know, I'll text you or the girls and say, like, I'm in a funky headspace, and then I feel okay a couple of days later. Um because I I think that your brain after you lose someone like just needs like a rest. Yeah. To like not either talk to anybody for a couple of days or um just to have silence because you don't have a lot of capacity.

unknown: Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: I mean I'm working full time, you know. And you're right. You mean you're you're so busy and now you've got right, it's just you solo with the kids. Yeah. So it's a whole other level. Yeah. So it's like, when do you have time to rest? So then all the other things that come at you. Yeah, I could see where you put that on the back burner and say that this doesn't this does not rise to the level of needing to be front and center because it's not critical.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and we talked in an episode two about, you know, how much traveling I've done in the last 18 months, a lot of travel. Um, and I do find that my brain is shifting a little bit to not feel like the need to escape as much. Um, so that's interesting to me, you know. Plus, you know, when you don't have millions of dollars to go to co travel, you kind of have to like realize oh, well, I guess I should probably stay at my house and like cook instead of you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: But I mean, I think in that that on that episode, because I think that was like a little escape. Yeah, right. It's escape visit.

SPEAKER_01: So then year two is definitely like now I'm having to face my reality of I can't travel as much as I want, right? I don't have the funds to do that. Um, I need to not necessarily force myself, but this is my new reality. So what does that look like? Develop a new lifestyle for myself, develop a new routine for myself.

SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, it's a it's a strange thing. Yeah, going from, and this is I think, I mean, this is beyond the grief thing, is going from a dual income household. Yeah, which I think most people in the and by the way, we have a lot of international listeners, which is so much fun. Shout out to the 40 countries that people listen to us. Yes, thank you. So fun. I don't know if if everyone overseas has to also have dual incomes to make it, but in America, America is you gotta have dual incomes. Going from the two incomes to a one income and still having college and you know, young adulting expenses, you're you know, you're still in the thick of high cost stuff.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: And that alone is stressful. Yes. Whether you've lost someone and you've gotten divorced or whatever that situation is, but that alone is so hard. Yeah, maybe to layer that on with grief and that instantaneously that happened, and yeah, you've got to be the only person.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think we kind of had the conversation uh this week too, which was my the reality that kind of hit you over the head is like you have this dual income and you're used to a particular lifestyle. I mean, not rich by any means, but able to go to dinner a couple of times a week for people to um and to be honest, I we I I was still kind of living like this for the last year, you know, um using money that I didn't necessarily have, sure, keeping up with everybody else as if I still was married and still had a dual income and have come to the conclusion when the fog has cleared in year two, which we talked of, you know, I talked to my girlfriends about, which is like shit, I can't keep up with doing the same stuff as my girlfriends anymore.

SPEAKER_01: And it felt like very sad for me this last couple of weeks because we had all joined the gym together, a beautiful new gym that opened in in our state. And we take golf lessons together, very, you know, not cheap. We do all these fun things. And I went through a couple of days of just feeling like really fucking pissed off that Chris died. Right. Not to be selfish, but like I'm pissed that I have to freaking pull back all these. We're empty nesters now. We were we're working, we're doing these things.

SPEAKER_01: And like now I don't get to do these things with my friends because I don't have a freaking second income. Right. And like I, yeah, I got pretty like pissed off this week and felt some reality setting in of being um having some anger towards not having my spouse here. Obviously, I'm not angry Chris Pass. So it's like clearly it was his time and that's not his fault, but mad that I now have to like move and bend and rearrange things that were very comfortable for me. And um that I had like, you know, canceling my gym membership.

SPEAKER_01: Like I was I'm like sad about that because that's a beautiful place that we all go, we laugh, we you know, sit there for hours, and I'm determined to do something with my life where I can still afford to do the things that I want to do with my girl with all of you.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and you you will. I know you will, but I think that's I'm gonna I'm always so proud of you for just always being so real about how you're feeling. Do you remember feeling angry in year one? No. I mean, I was I well, I did kick a hole in my bathroom wall.

unknown: Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: What was that? Was that because like something broke and you wanted to go? Oh, what was that? I forget what that was.

SPEAKER_01: That was just like dealing, I was I have like a water clot, like a toilet where the door shuts. Um, I think I had just like used the restroom and I got up and I knew I think the girls were maybe at the house, and I just had like so many emotions, and I knew I had to go and just kind of like be a parent, handle all this stuff. I think maybe something was wrong with one of the girls' cars. And honestly, we live in like new houses kind of in Idaho that aren't built like you know, like a little thin, a little thin, little thin, a little bah.

SPEAKER_01: So I just threw my hands on the wall up at the top of the wall, and I I put my foot kind of on the back of the wall, just kind of processing and thinking before I went downstairs, like gather myself. Sure. And um, I just did like a small little donkey kick to the back of the wall because I was like mad he wasn't here, right? You know, when I was, I think I, you know, said the F-word and I just kind of put my heel back kind of hard in the wall. I think I kind of used to kick him the thing when he was snoring at night.

SPEAKER_01: Like a silent donkey kick. One last kick. One last there you go. One last kick and my freaking went through the wall. Yeah, my heel went through the wall.

SPEAKER_03: Oh no, it's still like that. Okay. So it's a little reminder of the little reminder.

SPEAKER_01: It's a little circle hole in the wall in my water. See, Chris, we're constantly talking to you. Constantly talking about you, and I do look at it and like I'm still kicking your ass.

SPEAKER_03: Still kicking you. Oh, I think that yeah, so year two. Okay, so I being angry. I mean, that's what everyone says. Yeah, I haven't go through the stages of anger. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: And I again, it's not any kind of anger, like not no, it's anger that I have to do a lot more like by myself when we worked so hard for so many years as a team to get to where we were. Right. And then all of a sudden one day that's gone, and like now everything is my responsibility. From taking care of myself to finances to the girls, to I mean, anything and everything, my future, whatever that looks like, going to dinner with you guys, couples. It's like sometimes I just want to get in the car and not drive.

SPEAKER_01: Right. I want to be like a passenger. Chris. Yes. And just have Chris drive me. Like I don't want to have to drive to the restaurant by myself. I mean, you guys are great about picking me up almost everywhere we go, but I just want to kind of like have my partner back. The easy breezy.

SPEAKER_03: Like where you're not thinking about it, not having to make every single decision. Yes. Yes. Even if you are making them, you had a backup resource to bounce stuff off of. Totally. Especially with the girls. Like we have daughters, though I'm sure there's sons out there. But like there's moments where you're like, oh my God, kids, like, you know, ah, I freaking need backup on this. Totally. I need even or whatever's going on.

SPEAKER_01: Call your dad.

SPEAKER_03: Yes.

SPEAKER_01: I can't say just like can you just call your dad and ask him to change your freaking butch wipers? Like, I don't like yes, can you call your dad for that? Right. A bank account issue, whatever. Yeah. So I think that that's yeah, what and believe me, do I not know there's single moms out there? Like, even we taught we had this conversation, Hill, you and I, about, you know, you did have to leave your marriage and you were a single mom and you had three kids and you didn't have a lot of money and you had to start over from scratch.

SPEAKER_01: I'm like, that's why we do this podcast because it is almost identical.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's crazy, as in mine was a choice. I mean, would I have loved to stay married forever to that person? Yes, if that person would have not been horrible. Right. And I would, yes, I would have loved to have the fairyland got married, ran off into the sunset, had kids. You know, I look at some of our girlfriends who are still happily married to their incredible husbands, and it's like, granted, they're real marriages, but like they're still sticking it through and they're around you by 25, 30 years, and that was not my reality.

SPEAKER_03: But yeah, it is like all of a sudden one day you wake up and you're like, oh, you've taken this completely down to zero. Actually, now I've got hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt I have to deal with that I didn't know about. Totally. And I've got three little girls who are eight, ten, and eleven. And I now I've got one income, right? And it's like, yeah, I it was, you know, it was overwhelming, I would say. And I and I mean he wasn't there were moments when I had wished that he would fly eyed.

SPEAKER_03: You know, like it was like you left me here to deal with he was still physically walking around and then left me with all of this crap.

SPEAKER_01: I mean, isn't it crazy? Like that is why we do like the more and more we do these episodes, the more and more you realize that the death of a spouse and divorce, especially a divorce like yours where you have no contact and it's as if he doesn't exist anymore. Right. It is like very similar.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right, because you're right, if he was physically alive, but you've completely left the family uh because of the situation. It's almost as if he died. Yeah, if you I mean honestly, it's sound terrible, but this would have been easier. Yeah, it would have been easier for my girls to not know that their father was actually staying away by choice and not helping, you know, like he just left us with this. And granted, the girls didn't know this, they didn't know the ins and the outs, and I think they're just coming to light with some of these episodes on like what actually went down.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah. Because they were little, they were little people, but yeah, all of a sudden one day, and this is whether you're getting divorced by choice or it's been given to you, like you are the recipient of being served and being told that they the other person wants to get divorced. Um, but yeah, to go from dual income to one income and then to be the only person, like I yeah, I remember I was, you know, it was it's terrifying. It was absolutely terrifying of like, how am I ever gonna be able to support these kids and rebuild and like yeah.

SPEAKER_01: Well, I think that's too like why we are so close and why it it's almost as if you've like gone before me without obviously your ex passing away. But you know, you you we you truly do have such wisdom with guiding me with, you know, finances and what I need to do and what I'm capable of that I don't think I'm capable of, or um, even if if and when dipping my toes, you know, down the road into dating, or you know, you you had those periods that you're I know that I could lean on you. So it is very strange to me and amazing how similar um of a situation I'm in that you've already walked, you know.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I think and that's true of like every woman who's come before us, right? Is and that's true, I think, of and getting off the grief thing for a second is whatever you're going through, whatever our listeners are going through at this moment, whether you've lost someone, whether you know you are getting divorced or contemplating it, as I've always said, is at some point, for just a minute or 15, you gotta run it like a business.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: Because unfortunately, reality is there and you have to make really hard decisions. And so even in the context, you know, if you're grieving whatever the grief is, loss, losing a divorce is a loss. Right? It's you're grieving the family that you know you thought you were gonna have, and but you do. You have to treat it like a business and you have to get really real about like where you're at. And and everyone's capable. We as women are so freaking capable. Right. But yeah, I mean it's really, yeah, it's overwhelming in those moments.

SPEAKER_03: So okay, back to your back to year two.

SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I I it's just uh I think like more guilt maybe kind of sets in.

SPEAKER_03: Uh once that what does that feel like and what would what's the reason for guilt?

SPEAKER_01: I guess it's like, you know, if we're out and we're busting up laughing or we're dancing or I'm on a trip, you kind of feel like either people think you that you're leaving, you know, their memory behind, or you feel guilty, like, oh my gosh, I didn't even think about Chris in that moment. Or um, but then there's also really great moments where, you know, you're watching a show like, I don't know, Guardians of the Galaxy, like Chris loved all like Marvel and Disney and all of that kind of stuff with the girls, that it, you know, makes me so happy I had those memories with them.

SPEAKER_01: But as you as I I put a post up the other day about like, I haven't moved any of his stuff in the closet. And sometimes I just like grab all of the shirts that are hanging in his closet and I like lean into them like every couple of months, and I'm I say to him, like, just one small little small sniff of your scent would just really make my day or like even my week. And I go like I put my whole face and then I switch shirts, like I go through these little sections just to see like, does that smell like him?

SPEAKER_01: And then I'm like, then I feel guilty that I don't remember what he smells like. You know, so that that's hard for me because I'm like, wait, is that the wait, maybe I did smell him and I'll like sniff even harder. And I'm like, no, that's not it. So, you know, there's just these these little guilt, um, these just these little waves of guilt that come over if you're when you're moving on, because you don't really even freaking have a choice. You have to move on. Right, you have to ask for this. Right.

SPEAKER_01: But moving on, right? It's moving forward. It's moving forward because you have no other choice. You have to move forward. But like reinventing yourself as somebody you don't even really freaking know.

SPEAKER_03: No, because there's the before and you're married, yeah, and there's the after. Yeah. Do you feel from the outside world, not obviously the people who know you intimately and love you, do you feel ever judged? Or do you feel like people are thinking about it?

SPEAKER_01: I think that we are judged in in general, and I have several widow friends. Um, I follow several widow Instagram accounts. Um, there it's basically like a lose-lose situation. So you're either looked upon as laughing and having too much fun. What is she laughing for? She her husband just died, right? Um 18 months ago. But like, it's like, are you supposed to stay, you know, sad and and wear a black veil and be on your closet floor for as many years as you were married before you can even have any happiness?

SPEAKER_01: Or um, or you get the other part that's very much like, well, why isn't she better? Why isn't she um oh, she must be better. She's out laughing, she's out having a good time. Like, you know, she must be good. So there's the judgment of she's having too much fun and laughing too much, or she's not moving on quickly enough, or you know, like she's starting to see like you can't win. No, that's what I talk to some of my girl widow girlfriends about. Like you can't win either way, especially even if you ever want to talk about dating.

SPEAKER_03: Right, exactly. And at some point that will come into play. I mean, it has to. You're young, vibrant, and companies.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I just gonna be important. Um, this uh Sabrina, she has a great Instagram. Her Instagram is I think it's called Sab for Tony, S-A-B-F-O-R-T-O-N-Y. She's young, she's a young widow, she lives in New York City, and her and I talk. Um, but she said the number one yeah, question that she gets asked is Um, have you dated? When are you going to date? And she's like, I'm going to address it. And she's like, I've tried it, I didn't like it. Then I'm willing to try again. But basically, you're doomed if you do, and you're doomed if you don't.

SPEAKER_01: Right. That's too quick for someone. You've moved on too fast. You've moved on too fast, or you know, um, or yeah, or you should like you should go out and be living your your life. Like you really just can't win either way. So we we do talk a lot about um which is the society judgment.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I think I then it doesn't apply to men because I know of the few widowers. Widowers get married, yes. I would say they get married really quick and no one judges that. No, I think it's like men don't want to be alone. No one's built to be alone. I mean Oh, we're all supposed to be in community and partnership, right? And so, but yeah, there's no judgment on that side, which bless them. But why we're not that you have to like how long is enough? Yeah, I think how long do you have to be sad and mourning and you're you're going to grieve Chris for the rest of your life.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah. He's never not going to be grieved because he's it's it will never, it's always gonna be a loss. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: So yeah.

SPEAKER_01: And I also learned so much. But I know, you know, he wouldn't want me laying in my closet crying all the time. I mean, I'm I might be upset that he didn't like magically give me the scent of him in the closet.

SPEAKER_03: He was like, I just don't have any send your wedding. I didn't wear like thick cologne. And I didn't. I didn't wear anything. He had like he was always like so stylish and clean and he didn't have body odor. And like, so it's like he did wear um old spice like deodorant. So sometimes if I would like to we should go spray it. I might, I might maybe we'll sneak in and we'll just tell us what he had and like spray it. I'm like, it's a miracle, it's a Christmas miracle, my closet smells. We can do that.

SPEAKER_03: Um then like just grab some stuff.

SPEAKER_01: But yeah, your two is definitely uh has some guilt uh put into it. And you know, guilt even with the closet. It's like I know there's no timeline, but also for myself, like, do I put this stuff in a bin and put it in the garage so the girls can also have go through it? Um, and I can't just leave it. I mean, it's all dusty, like all the tops of his shirts are dusty, you know, like where they sit on the hanger. Um, and there is no timeline, but also you do have like nobody's going to tell me or come along and save me.

SPEAKER_01: Um I have to do it myself. So I don't know if there is ever gonna be a time. Well, I'm what do I leave it in there for 20 years?

SPEAKER_03: But does it feel comforting for you still right now to walk in there and still see his stuff and be amongst his stuff?

SPEAKER_01: Uh, I think it, I feel like it did for the first year. And I feel like I'm getting more and more kind of, I don't know if it's a little bit of anger, especially because I can't smell anything that smells like him, or if it's just like, well, that isn't my life anymore. Sure. And that's my old life. And I should probably start to pack it up and at least like tuck it away, which feels really sad, but also feels like I have to still live this life, you know. I mean, it doesn't mean I can't live with his stuff in the closet, but it's like collecting dust.

SPEAKER_01: And, you know, and the girls know. I mean, I have like his favorite shirts that I've totally kept. I sleep with one shirt in my nightstand is Aviator Nation shirt. We were talking about that brand earlier. Um, but yeah, I don't I'm not really sure. It's just it's year two is don't you think you'll know when you know, though?

SPEAKER_03: Like that's what everyone says. You'll know when you're in a I don't know. Like you're maybe in that transition space of Or if I move. It was comfortable, and now maybe it's becoming a little bit like, oh, maybe I need to start processing this.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think I did share with you too, um, about feeling and I I don't feel this right now, but um feeling very which is why I think I traveled a lot because I felt like I was living in somebody else's home that another family lived there. And I was just like kind of like a onlooker or like a roommate a little bit. Um, and I'm starting to not feel like that, which is is good because I didn't like to be in my house for a while. I didn't want to be in there. It made me feel too sad and too many memories and like I didn't know my own home.

SPEAKER_01: And now it's feeling like you're home again. A little bit. I mean, I still feel like I need to rearrange some things.

SPEAKER_03: Sure. Like a little refresh. Yeah, but you still right, Chris was there and all the other good things. So shock has worn off and your reality obviously has deepened. You're in processing a lot, obviously. A lot of the things we just talked about, internal processing. People have expectations of you. What about support? Like are you getting as much support? Are people checking in, less support? What does that look like in your two for you?

SPEAKER_01: Um, I feel like it's definitely um it's just different support from different people in a different season. It's very strange. Uh, I mean I see you guys just as much. I see, you know, my girlfriends and their husbands here just as much. Um, and I see my California girlfriends and everybody still, you know, checks in. I think maybe it's me that doesn't um want to burden anybody. I guess that's kind of how it's become. Like, I don't, if I'm feeling down, I just need that time to kind of be by myself.

SPEAKER_01: And I don't want to ever burden anybody with like, well, didn't he die like 18 months ago? Like, what hasn't it been a while? Like, are we still talking about this? I'm not saying anyone feels that way. No, it's my own issue. Okay. Yeah. It's my own issue of not wanting to burden anybody with something that we've already been trudging through this mud for 18 months. And I kind of just keep some things to myself, and and that's okay.

SPEAKER_03: That's just, you know, that's yeah, but I think from my side of as your friend, is I want to know when you send those texts that say I'm in a bad headspace. I'm in a bad headspace. Yeah. I'm having a hard time. That is a window into the the realness of grief. Is you're 18 months in of a 26-year relationship that is a blink. I know. So you're uh at 18 months to And I usually do s tell you why, you know. Yeah, but I but that's I it's it's honest and it's authentic that 18 months is nothing. And the fact that like it just feels like he was gone yesterday.

SPEAKER_03: I know. And I know we've lived a lot of life.

SPEAKER_01: But I think society like life likes it life moves fast. Yes. And I think society tells us that we need to get back to work, get back to doing the things we used to do. Um, you know, smile more. Like I just think it's like you don't really have, I mean, I have the opportunity to grieve, but it's almost like I mean, life moves ahead whether we like it or not. That's the bottom line.

SPEAKER_03: It it it does, sadly. But I think fuck all that, right? Yeah, and I definitely make my life way different at a slower pace. I say no to a lot of things. And sadness is sadness. Yeah. And right, unfortunately, yeah, like you can go on Instagram and it all looks, you know, like shiny and bright and fun and light, and that's not reality. No, and so that's the thing is 18 months in, if reality is which it should be, and I would assume for people who are grieving, sadness and you know, thoughts coming, like you were saying, and then you're really good some days, and then you're really not good other days.

SPEAKER_01: And you don't know what when those days are gonna occur.

SPEAKER_03: Right. And so honoring that and sitting in that and like letting people are become aware of that. No, none of us, I mean, you're people who love you, no one expects you at 18 months. I mean, oh no.

SPEAKER_01: This conversation five years from now of, you know, uh time does heal on some things, but yeah, I this is I think it's more just so um because life is so fast-paced and because of how society per portrays the grieving process. I mean, you know, you grieve and then you're supposed to be like back at work in a few weeks. Sure. Like right performing exactly how you were and have like all the partner and harmony and like nervous systems, yeah, that are like are completely shattered. Yes, yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_01: So just you know, that type of thing. Yeah. Um, but yeah, it's just a it's a strange I I often say I feel like I'm like living in the matrix or like some sort of weird simulation. Um, but there are still so many really great, beautiful days and and lessons that I learned that I feel so grateful to even have the things I have, you know. Um Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I mean Yeah, but people don't expect you to like you're not you're a new version of yourself.

SPEAKER_01: So you're I don't know, yeah, who I am. And I'm very honest now. I mean, I think I was a little bit more like always kind of just didn't want to hurt people's feelings and want to just make sure everybody was happy or having a good time. And now I just say like how it is in a loving way. Like, I'm so sorry. I just can't do that tonight. Or I don't even say sorry, I just say I can't do that tonight. You guys have a great time. I'll see you tomorrow. I'm uh in a weird headspace where I'm struggling, and obviously you guys are awesome, but I'm very honest.

SPEAKER_01: I live, I try to find joy in each day. I am uh, but year two is definitely clouds totally moving, and I'm not in that survival fog mode anymore, which is yeah, it's definitely a different. I don't know if it's harder or not harder, it's just different. Yeah. It's like just it's like but my expectation was oh gosh, thank God I'm went through that year. Now it's gonna start to like go uphill and be easier.

SPEAKER_03: And it's not so we came into year two thinking, oh, I made it through year one. Yes, all of the first, yes, all of the first, which are so monumental, yeah. And now we're gonna kind of slide into year two and things are gonna start to find out.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm gonna start to know where I am. I'm going to start to figure out what my future looks like. What am I gonna do? You know, where am I gonna live? What's my financial future? Um, all of that. And that was just definitely not the case for sure.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well have you, you obviously have a lot of widow friends. I do. And oddly enough. Which is I know, which is crazy. You're I mean, we don't have to get there but for you, but for year three, I mean, when when does it get like a little hint easier?

SPEAKER_01: Um my widow fri my girlfriend Lauren, she's a widow, like a grief coach. Um I had a little conversation with her, you know, she just said, be prepared, like year two is hard. And um, I was like, really? It feels like it should start to get easier. Like you've you just experienced the worst day and year of your entire existence. She says it's just different. So I have her that has gone before me. And then I have another girlfriend um that is about a year, so like Lauren, um her Instagram is uh not cute by any means, but it's it's it's I'm sorry we're friends.

SPEAKER_01: Isn't that like she it's basically like I'm sorry you're here because you're also a widow, and so she has she has yeah, hers is more like uh I'm so sorry we're friends.

SPEAKER_03: You join, right? No one wants to be part of it. No one wants to be a part of this. This is a is a club that never wants to actually join.

SPEAKER_01: Um right. So she's uh I think she's five or six years in, and then car my girlfriend, um, she's a year ahead of me, and then all the others are behind me. Okay, so this is very interesting.

SPEAKER_03: Like she Yeah, I'm gonna think here too is I mean, I can imagine that being on her just because you're a more aware.

SPEAKER_01: If the fog, right, hasn't stuttering anymore, my words and thoughts are clear. I don't have a lot of capacity. Still for a lot of things in terms of I can't I I can't think of words uh clearly uh all the time yet, but they're definitely coming back to me.

SPEAKER_03: Um but yes, I have yeah, it's that's actually a good message for people who are who've got someone like entering year two is don't ask them for anything. And we already talked about this though, like don't ask, what what do you mean? Yeah. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about like don't ask them to do stuff. You on your own choice can say, hey, I'm doing X, Y, and Z, but don't try and maybe loop people in to do things alongside or help you plan things or do other things because I think that as you're saying is my decision making is still very difficult, is what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01: So if somebody says, What are your thoughts or on X. On X, it's a and I was the I'm the cruise director. Right, or Julie. I was Julie from the Love Boat people.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, just as I was Julie the cruise director. If you don't know what Julie from the Love Boat is, you need to look up the show. Or you're too young. You're too young, or right, just look up Julie from the Love Boat.

SPEAKER_01: Fantastic. So yes, I was very much the party planner that um, you know, um, yeah, made the plans, made sure everybody was invited, everybody had a gift, blah, blah, blah. And now it's yeah, um, I don't know. You have to relinquish that. It's bizarre to me though, because it's hard for me to like come to terms that I'm not that person anymore. You probably want to be that person. I do.

SPEAKER_01: And now um I I send you the type B friend memes, and I don't want to be the type B friend, and I am the type B friend right now who either forgets things or you know, comes to your house to do podcasts and I forget my computer. Like it's it's just nothing life-shattering. No, yeah, but frustrating for someone who used to be so much of a planner, and now I can hardly even remember some certain things. Yeah, that's you know, that's that's hard for me for sure.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: Decision making is still very difficult. Words are coming back and the fog is clearing, and I can handle more than I used to handle, but um are all words or is it like some words not coming back?

SPEAKER_03: Like the swear words, are they still there?

SPEAKER_02: Um I still still know those were still and shit. I still those come very easily to me.

SPEAKER_03: I was like, I don't think that's like those ever leaving your wine, sure, but aren't those the ones like uh I feel like those are your like those are Well, yeah, I know all the bad words in Armenian because that's what Chris was Armenian.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, or we know bad words in Spanish, you know. Yeah, everyone knows the bad words in every language, you know.

SPEAKER_03: I mean, as long as those words have stuck, yeah, the other words are coming. They can totally because you can do a complete sentence with those words.

SPEAKER_01: Just saying. Just saying. Yeah, I I just I think the biggest takeaway for something, you know, like this episode in year two, which maybe it will do uh going into year three, um, that will be helpful is just you're truly the person that died along with your spouse that day is gone, and you don't do anything the same. Like it's just so weird to me that I have to like I'm like a baby again. I have to like build my life from the ground up. You know, what do I like? What shows do I like? Right, what do I like to eat for dinner by yourself?

SPEAKER_01: By myself.

SPEAKER_03: Right.

SPEAKER_01: Without taking into consideration such a kids, anyone else's And there's there are no rules. I guess I just thought like every night Chris came home because he did most of the cooking like Sean does, he would cook or go to the grocery store. And now I mean I my fridge is still very much empty. Um, and I don't ever cook meals, but I'm like, okay, who cares? Right. I didn't matter. It was just you were on this life of your routine. Right. And now I don't have a routine. Yeah, right. Um, which like I said, can be a little bit hard for me with just like how I feel like I was is more I wasn't a type A because I wasn't like rigid, but I'm definitely more But you guys were active.

SPEAKER_01: Sorry, guys, yeah. You guys were active. We were very active. We're very active.

SPEAKER_03: So going okay, so you and I want you to repeat this because I thought this was a really good story. Year two, people running into you tell the Trader Joe story because this is where let's say you find, let's say you know someone who's over grieving and you're like entering year two or you're in year two. What is some great advice you can give people on what not to say or do when you run into let's say and I'm not talking about close friends because obviously close friends are more of acquaintances, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: Let's say you run into someone like attractive. Like Chris of Service, yes, whatever. Right. So people who are running into you out and about in the wild.

SPEAKER_01: Yes, in the wild. I'm hardly in the wild people, but if you do see me. So in the wild at Trader Joe's. In the wild, yes. So it took me a really I think I went to Trader Joe's five different times. I go to therapy every Tuesday. Um, after therapy, I try really hard while I'm already out to go to Trader Joe's and get some snacks because I don't eat a regular meal. Um so I I think I went five times and sat in the parking lot because I was one, either afraid I was gonna see someone I knew and I didn't want to fall apart or have to have small talk with them.

SPEAKER_01: Um so I left. And then finally I got the courage to go in and I I think I had a hat on. I kind of like was putting my head down and I saw this acquaintance who came right up to me, sweetest, and I love her dearly. Like I she's uh she's so adorable, so nice, always, you know, just great. And I just thought, and it's our only trader Joe's here, so it's not like I had a choice to go somewhere else. Right. Um, I I just thought, okay, keep your head down, get your cart, so I get my cart, and then you know, you hear, hi Sada, and it was like, oh well, I and it was kind of oh well, no, it wasn't late.

SPEAKER_01: I go Well, it's not early because your therapy's yeah, and I guess it got down at six, so it was like 7 15. Yeah, it's not it's not early evening, it's like mid evening. And oddly enough, where we live, you know, we have two Trader Joe's. We have one downtown and we have the one in eight in Ride in. Um and so I just I'm like my heart sunk because I had built, I think I sat in the car 20 minutes before I actually went to Trader Joe's because I was thinking, what if I see someone? Do I really need something to eat?

SPEAKER_01: How I you know, I was like, yes, I have nothing in my freaking freaking AJ Devil. Yes, two conversations. We were having having a fest. Like just leave her. Right, yes. Just door dash something where you just have wine and cheese. You have wine and cheese at home. So I go in, yes, hi Sana. And I was like, hi, how are you? You know, she's like, I'm good. I just think this is the takeaway. Uh it was very kind and very meaningful, but it was very like deep and sad and heavy. It was like, hi, how are you doing?

SPEAKER_01: It's the right, it's that, it's the inflection and the eyes, and like yes. I was thinking, I go, Well, I'm doing as good as I can. I'm here out in public and trader shows. And then she said, Um, are you, you know, how are things going with Chris passing? And are you doing okay? She's like, You look so good. You look beautiful, you look radiant, like you just look like you are doing so great. And I was like, and she meant it. Like, truly comfortable. And I did like had a good therapy session, and I'll think I was crying.

SPEAKER_01: I think I still had makeup on, and I had probably like a decent outfit. Um, and I, you know, I was like thinking, and I just said, I'm totally hanging in there. And in my mind, I'm speaking to her. And in my mind, there is dialogue going on that's saying, How can you get out of here? What can you do? What can you say to leave right now? You shouldn't have come in here. Right. Um, I knew this was gonna happen, like, you know, some negative talk. And so, you know, I finally we finally finished talking and I kind of let her go ahead of me, and then I turned around and put my card away, and I went right back into my car and I drove home.

SPEAKER_01: So I didn't even get a shade dress. Because I couldn't you couldn't like the yeah, it was too much for me to get out. And then I was afraid if I ran into her in another aisle, I'd just have to talk to her again. And small talk is so hard. Right. And um, I just was like Yes, you had like the fight or flight. I shouldn't have come in here, yeah. So I turned around and uh and went home. And I didn't have buy any sex for myself.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and that's it's hard because people are gonna run into you or anyone is gonna want to acknowledge.

SPEAKER_01: I think it's just a matter of like not putting on that like triggering. I think it triggers people for me, it does. When if I look okay, it doesn't mean I'm okay, but just like let me be as sure, like let me, I'm out in public, I'm trying to get something done, sure, but don't, you know, grab someone by both shoulders and say, Oh my gosh, how are you? Are you is ever unless you're like really know that person. Right. So that thing could break down or cry in front of you, or because I was on the first.

SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't be at Trader Joe's, right?

SPEAKER_03: I yeah, if I ran into a Trader Joe's, I'd be like, hey, right, yeah, you aren't having a deep dialogue, I'm not grabbing you, or I would probably not be saying those eyes into your eyes to your eyes. Like, I'm not gonna try and break you in, and not she was trying to do that. No, she wasn't. Loving and had just and coming from a place of support. Yes. But that's right. That's I think my message of use your words.

SPEAKER_01: Use your words, read the room, take it, take it as if you're really close with them, absolutely. Like, hey, are you doing okay? If you ever want to talk, I'm here. Yeah. Um, you know, do you, you know, um well if you're really close to them, you're not even gonna say that.

SPEAKER_03: You're not even gonna have to say that. I would have been I can't. Why didn't you send me your armor? I'm coming here, right? Right. Why didn't you give me your trade? That's clips. Yeah. You know that, like, I could have gotten this for you.

SPEAKER_01: I guess says that if it would have just been like, hey, Sana, how are you? Gosh, you've been on my mind. I'm hoping you're doing okay. I pray for I got it. Would you like say prayer if you want to get a coffee once at some point? I'm praying for you.

SPEAKER_03: I'm thinking of you.

SPEAKER_03: Sure, maybe knowing that you're never gonna do a coffee.

SPEAKER_01: Uh well, I'm so now I mean, for me, for myself, I would probably just say, like, um, if I wanted to, I would say, that'd be nice. Why don't you reach out? Or I would just say, Oh, you know, I I don't do things anymore, ever, if I don't want, if I don't want to do them. So I feel confident in myself that it's like if you see someone at the grocery store or like Target, I don't ever say anymore, like ever, ever, ever. I don't ever get together. I do not ever say that because I just say it was really good to see you.

SPEAKER_01: Right. You look great. I hope all's well with your family. Have a great rest of your week. And I move on. But it took me a long time to learn that because most of the time I would say, we should get together. And I didn't necessarily mean it, and they probably didn't want to get together with me either. I think that's true in all stages of life. It's a filler. It's a filler. Because you don't know. So I'm not doing any filler shit anymore. I think that's there you go. That's my takeaway.

SPEAKER_03: That's your take. No more filler. No more filler shit. And that's true for any woman at any stage of life. It's for if you don't mean it, don't say it. Yeah. And I think that's it's all okay for us to not say stuff that we're yeah. We don't have to promise to follow up. I'll text you, we'll get together.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: Okay. So that's it, that's a good one.

SPEAKER_01: So all that to say, I left. I went back. I have gone.

SPEAKER_03: Have Trader Joe's since have you ever gone back?

SPEAKER_01: I have, I have gone back.

SPEAKER_03: Um have to do a pickup, like I do. Oh, I mean order online, yeah, you know, pull in. I know. Right? That would be because there's things at Trader Joe's you just have to get that you can't get at.

SPEAKER_01: They need to have like 50 stalls. I know. Of just I mean, and part of the the draw for going in there is seeing all the things you've never seen before.

SPEAKER_03: I don't go to Trader Joe's. There's no draw for me.

SPEAKER_01: No?

SPEAKER_03: No, there's no draw for any store for me to go into.

SPEAKER_01: Oh well no, I don't go to any other store. I was talking about Trader's Joe's soundly go there because you can't order online. I order everything else online.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I just there's nothing.

SPEAKER_01: There's not the my girls are like in and out. You can't get through DoorDash. They'll never, ever, ever do pickup or DoorDash. Like that, that's their thing. They'll like, and sometimes you just want an in-and-out burger. They will never, ever sign on.

SPEAKER_03: I do not know that. That's crazy. You can never the girls are great because they'll go to Trader Joe's like once a week and they're always asking me, Do you want anything? And I'm like, no, because all of it is snackies. Well, and you can't all of that. Yeah. But I don't want to eat any of that. So yeah. But I mean, Trader Joe's is a great store. I just we love Trader Joe's. I do love Trader Joe's. It's magical.

SPEAKER_01: I just I do wish one I was wish that there was one over here by you though.

SPEAKER_03: I wish they had pickup because I'd be great. So okay, so kind of finishing it out, right? So year one, survival, two sounds like it's just reality.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah. Year two is fog clearing reality. And and to throw some positivity in it, which I feel like is always good to do because it takes just as much effort to think negatively as it does to think positively. Um you know, there are some like pots of gold at the end of the rainbow when you think about, you know, your future and some of the things that you you can do whatever you want, really. You know, I'm not saying I want to do that without Chris, but I don't have a choice, so I have to. Right. So whatever that looks like, I I don't really know.

SPEAKER_01: I mean, I could go live in Spain if I wanted to. Like, I mean, not that I would, I'm just saying, like, there this is the a time to try to, you know, still grieve, but also know that there is this really short amount of time that you're here on this planet, and I'm going to make the best of it. And I'm not just gonna live this mundane life of working and coming home and, you know, um doing the same thing over and over again. There are so many things that I feel like I can offer to the world and that I want to do in the world.

SPEAKER_01: And I I want to try to look at the best. I mean, one of the biggest things I think I did in year two, which was really helpful for me, was unfollow um a ton of social media accounts so that my brain just stays like focused on my own friends, my own community, my own family, and not listening to, yes, I should be, everybody should maybe be informed. But like Chris died, and like we're still in the same situation, like what the world is is supposed to be, you know, as it was when he dies.

SPEAKER_03: We can't change that. I don't know. We don't have impact on changing the world. I would just so lessening sometimes of the outside message. Very big ones. Because like you and I could go change the world and we could rule the world and like write the shift everywhere. Awesome. Right. We would go do that. But since we can't, then I agree. Like I think that's true even without grief, is limiting the messages that come into you. Yes, because the world is so chaotic, yeah, that I just need peace. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: At this age, just love peace and quiet. Yes. And like hanging with the people that we love, that we cherish, and not worrying about the stuff that I honestly can't control. We can't control. And we're not meant to see all of that.

SPEAKER_01: So it really did help like my nervous system. I do have to say, like my nervous system, my outlook, taking so many negative people. And um, I think I did talk about this already on an episode, but I've really cleaned it up where it's um it's great. It's positive stuff. I get a little bit here and there, but it's just how I want to live. I want reminders every day that I am blessed to to wake up and have breath in my lungs. I want reminders to like, if I'm crabby, to go outside and go for a walk.

SPEAKER_01: I want reminders that girlfriends are the lifeline to your life. I want reminders that, you know, your health truly does matter. And that I want reminders that your family, you know, if if if you're close with your family, like make sure you tell them, you know, I also really that's it.

SPEAKER_03: And reminders that your animals are actually your children. My animals are actually because that's literally my whole social media feed. Ruby Sue and C are my social media feed. And it's like, yeah, we birth them.

SPEAKER_01: And oddly things cats going in UFOs going up into the sky are totally taken over my feed, and I'll take that any day over political bullshit.

SPEAKER_03: I absolutely I mean any dog, those dogs that tell jokes and then laugh off their chairs. Like literally, that is how I start my scene and how I end my day is the dogs doing anything. I know, I know, I know and there's cats there too, but dogs.

SPEAKER_01: Or an animal, even though we have a cat if we adore. We've been golfing, so there's funny golf things that I adore that I bust up looking at girls, you know, having their drinks in their golf cart. Um doing cartwheels. Smoking the occasional cigarette, right? And cartwheels on the course. So this is what we're talking about, you guys. We are the experts on uh, you know, post-divorce, uh coming of, you know, finding yourself and year two of grief.

SPEAKER_03: And and we'll we'll definitely circle back and do a divorce episode because obviously dating after divorce, uh very different socially. There's I don't feel like I mean there might be a little bit of judgment, but I I didn't feel oh no, I don't probably have to feel a lot of judgment around me, but I I wasn't paying attention to it because I didn't care. Yeah. Because I looked there's no I was ready to date.

SPEAKER_01: Yes, and I think your divorce was over so long before.

SPEAKER_03: Well, and I was I it took so long to get divorced, but it was also so many years in the making to get to that stage. Yeah. That when I finally filed, I was ready to roll. But yeah, I think that's definitely uh I think widowed dating vastly different. And that's not it's not even a save playing field. Yeah. Of right, it's totally acceptable to date after divorce and to do it quickly, yeah, and to not have any shame in that. So you know so fast.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's definitely judged uh and there's so much that comes with that. Like, you know, but we'll have I think we're gonna try to have my girlfriend Megan on. Maybe we can even have Sabrina on. I asked her already, um, talking about dating after her husband, Tony.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I would love to and the judgment that comes with that. Yeah, that would be really good uh to hear from someone who lived that, breathed that.

SPEAKER_01: And my girlfriend Lauren, who's you know, the widow coach, she's uh remarried, so what that was like for us.

SPEAKER_03: Oh, and she was widowed for how long.

SPEAKER_01: I think she's uh I think she just got married a couple years ago, so maybe maybe four. I don't know if she's been married a couple. I think.

SPEAKER_03: Oh, that would be interesting to definitely talk to her. Yeah. It's crazy that you know so many other widows.

SPEAKER_01: It's very yeah, so it's wild, but I'm grateful and because all of their seasons, you know?

SPEAKER_03: Absolutely. It's a club, like you said, it's a club you don't want to be a part of, but you're so quite thankful that you've heard of them.

SPEAKER_01: Yes, I'm so grateful for each of them. Yeah. So well, that's year two, and uh, we're here and we I I know I get it. Um it's uh it's a tough road, and I truly thought year two was going to be this um eye-opening experience of me being this new person with this easy road ahead, and it's anything but that. So but it doesn't mean that there's not beautiful, amazing times in between, but that's life in general.

SPEAKER_03: Life in general, right? Yeah, totally, and kind of closing it as you know, healing isn't about moving on, it is about learning how to move forward with it, yeah, in all things mostly for you in your choose. So thank you for always your honesty and for being you. And then I just do look beautiful.

SPEAKER_01: Stop. And then I told the world I kicked a hole in my wall. There you go.

SPEAKER_03: And you that's honesty. Yeah, right. I'm glad you picked a hole in that wall, and I'm glad it's still there because the Laura's gonna do that. You've come, right? Like that's do you think Sean will come and patch it up for me? I don't think we want Sean to patch it up. Sean is amazing at many things. I'm not sure patching walls, but I will tell you as we know a lot of people who are will come. You're right. And patch patches.

SPEAKER_01: Actually, we probably could figure it out ourselves on YouTube. We probably shouldn't do that. Okay. We can only say it's the it's the size of my heel.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we'll we'll get it all patched up.

SPEAKER_01: So onward and upwards, your wall and thanks for listening to our our podcast as always, and our stories and life, uh just when what the fuck happens to it.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right. Life is messy. So love to all of you, and we will talk to you all soon.

Midlife Grief & Widowhood | Why Year 2 After Losing a Spouse Is Harder

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